Concept Design LR Project

[No Fear in Accuracy]

Hello LR Shooters,

You may say what the heck is that? It is my concept design of LR rifle. I'm 3D Modeler and I design any kind of models. I use high-end 3D application to design the models.

Most auto manufactories created concept vehicles before going into productions. I feel it is important when I want to build a custom rifle for the first time and I want to see the design first before building one. The gunsmith/riflesmith will have a better understanding when they see my design instead of explaining words to them. It is possible that if very experienced shooters know what they want for their next project, they might not need to design the model but it is a good idea to design first. It is free and cheaper to create 3D in the computer than spending money and creating the concept model and see if it will work or not. It is very easy to modify the models in the computer due to your preferences. I believe in visualization. My favourite motto from Albert Einstein: "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge." It is true…you have to be creative to design. It doesn't have to be perfect, you just draw and do a lot of research, asking the right people who have good experiences and knowledge in those area. Do not ask someone who is not familiar in the area you are working on. I asked some questions to LR shooters in this forum and they were very helpful and gave me good answers that I was looking for. I decided I'm going to design my dream LR rifle and pleased with the result. I have never design a LR rifle before. It was my first time doing it. I have designed tons of products but not this one.
As you can see several images below, the gray colour has no textures on it. It is called "Shading". It is a simple design without textures. It is very common and it is easy on your mind without distracting. You can add any kind of textures and colours to it. Of course, you may not want to add purple colour on the barrel unless you are…umm… nah, nevermind.
Other image has white lines which is called "Wireframe". It shows you the shape of the model.
The last image is included the textures. When I looked at it, do I want green with white spider web or gray with white spider web? Do anything you like but be careful, some manufactories don't make them, don't have that colour or style you wish for or you pay more for the custom paint.
Remind you that it is NOT TO SCALE. It is only rough data because I didn't measure the parts to get accurate data.

I could create 3D model for you before you order or build the LR rifle for the first time.

DC may wonder how did the mystery LR rifle get on my chair? He may say, "Did I order another LR rifle again or did I lose count?

-Denny
3D Modeler

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: No Fear in Accuracy ]

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: No Fear in Accuracy ]

 

[texas]

for someone called no fear that's a mighty big step designing your own lr rifle! but my hat goes off to you. i have my idea in my head but can't quite put it into a drawing like you did. where did you find the program for it?

 

[*WyoWhisper*]

You gotta get the program.... that is what every LRH guys needs...I wonder if DC saw this...
Not sure who could make the stock for you.. way to cool......

 

[FatBoy...]

NFinA,

Looks like this comany may be able to make that stock. http://www.geocities.com/precisework/VarTac_22-250.html I don't know if he builds to suite, but it's the closet stock I've seen to what you've designed.

I'd also like to get my hands on that program...

FatBoy...

 

[Darryl Cassel]

Hello No Fear

Very good idea with the drawings and layout ahead of time.

By the way, that bull elk hide your newly designed rifle is on, was shot at 1360 Yards.

Nice program your working with. Is it available to the public?

Later
Darryl Cassel

 

[No Fear in Accuracy]

texas:
The program I use "Maya 4.0" It is very powerful 3D tools. Most hollywood movies use Maya 3D software. It costs around $4000 but you can get cheaper ones that will work just fine. The most popular 3D software would be Discreet 3D Studio MAX. Maya offers 30 days free trial so you will get the idea of 3D software but it will run only WIN NT 4.0 and WIN 2000. MAX will run either WIN 98 and NT

WyoWhisper:
I'm trying to design the stock that looks like Lee Six but I only have one picture of the stock. It doesn't look right yet. I'll need to modify it a little bit. I just want to know if the Lee Six stock will hold the block well or the stock/forearm has to be wider to hold horizontal split design block. If it is not possible then the only choice would be vertical split design block which is much narrow than the horizontal split block.

FatBoy: That surprised me. I haven't seen that stock design before and it is quite close. Hmm...not sure if it will handle heavy recoil like 338 Lapua? I need a little bit heavier stock.

DC: Really? My new LR project sits on your bull elk hide, was shot at 1360 yards. I would be proud if it were me. Yes, the software is available to the public. Try this one: http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/WhatWeDo/maya/see/solutions/soln_intro.shtml

-Denny

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: No Fear in Accuracy ]

 

[Steve Shelp]

Denny,
First off nice work. I use to be a designer/draftsman and worked with AutoCAD for a number of years and they were just expanding into the 3D modeling when I got out of the business. But I still dabble with it still once in awhile.

You made mention about possibly making this stock, but that the picture isn't to scale. Is it at least proportionally correct? If so there are a couple of things I see with your design that jumps out at me based on experience that may be a problem for you to consider before you start writing the checks out.

1 - balance point of the rifle
With the short forearm and the block located right in the middle and I'm sure a longer than normal barrel hanging out there the butt section will be on the light side. This will cause up/down grouping in my experience. Yes you could start adding lead in holes drilled into the butt section and such to compensate but then you end up with an usually heavy rifle when it my not be needed. You're going to want some overall weight there for overall stability of the rifle (and cut down on recoil) but not more than is needed just to make it shoot.

2 - Slope angle of the bottom of the butt
if this rifle is solely intended to be shot from a bench (the design gives this insinuation) then it should be on the heavy side(as mentioned above) and is normally shot with minimal if any contact (meant - free recoil) of the shooter. When this method of shooting is used normally a flatter and almost parallel butt section is used. If the rifle is a little lighter in weigh and meant to be held while firing then the slope angle like you have is used to give you elevation adjustment. But too much slope gives up/down in your grouping if you don't have the same rifle hold every time. The bottom line is the less the slope the more "forgiving" the rifle is under recoil and the less it needs to be held. That's BR doctrine 101 and doesn't 100% apply to field use though. The original Six design has a slight slope on it but not as excessive of what is shown. The Tooley MBR stock I think has a 5/8" difference in up/down thickness from the pistol grip to the heel of the stock.

Pistol Grip to Heel shape
Depending on what rear bag design you use would also dictate the shape of the heel of the stock. Some of the newer bags are what they call the 3 stitch models that have a gap between the 2 bunny ears and work great with stocks that have a flat on the bottom. The Six design stock your looking at has a lot thicker and much more rounded bottom and prefers the large rabbit eared sand bags. Not to say they can't be used with the other bag design, but that is the trend based on my experience and shooters I know that have them. Sometime these larger rabbit eared bag interfere with shooters hold and cheek weld depending on your setup. Unfortunately what particular method you would prefer is only learned from seat time behind rifles and making your own decision. So I can't tell you which one to use. They both work great for the shooters that like them.

Width of the forearm
Wider is better (to steal the Grand Prix slogan) but also requires a more bulky front rest to hold it. If your rifle has any weight to it and that wide forearm it could cause some wobble between the front rest vertical post and the base of your front rest due to the leverage advantage of that wide forearm. I've seen many hand built rests to over come this for field use, so just think about it before building. Also when sitting at the bench in the field you have to be able to react to where the game appears at quickly and easily. So keep the size/weight of your front rest setup in mind. Also if you ever decide to shoot competition with this rifle 8" is the maximum allowed forearm width and your field rest setup may or may not be legal. So keep that in mind when building. Most use a 5" width like is used on the McMillian 50HBR stock, and sand bags are readily available for this width. When you go over this width you start getting into expense and availability issues for sandbags and rest tops to support those wide setups. But if your crafty with your own hands and have a workshop you can do it yourself within reason. But if you're planning on buying all of this equipment from vendors this could be an issue for you to consider.

Comb height to support raised scope
The horizontal clamping block design (you seem to be favoring right now) normally has a taller profile due to the clamping bolts being on top of the block. So your scope mounts are going to have to be much higher to get the scope clearance off the top of the block. You might want to consider an adjustable cheek piece if you are the type that prefers to hold the rifle while shooting to compensate for this raised height. This has the added advantage of being able to lower the cheek piece while inserting your cleaning rod and not having to "bow" your cleaning rod to gain entry into the chamber area of the barrel. You do not want your cleaning rod to bow while cleaning. There's a price to pay for this and it could be a new barrel in the most extreme cases. In your previous post with the pictures of the blocks, the block that had the clamping bolts going crossways through the bottom of the block and had the area milled out in the middle of the upper half of the block is done for the reasons stated above. The milled out section still allows the scope bell clearance and the clamping bolts are down in the stock so it maintains the low profile.

Hope this helps and good luck with your project,
Steve

 

[No Fear in Accuracy]

Steve Shelp:

Thanks so much for the tip. I appreicated it.
Actually, I designed the stock to look like Lee Six but it didn't come out right. I don't have enough data on this. I designed it based on my eye to measure it and had one photo of Lee Six so it will not be accurate. Now I changed my mind about the stock from Lee Six to McMillan 50LBR or 50HBR stock. It will hold the big block just fine. I'll redesign it again. Thank God, I didn't send out all of my checks cuz it is free and you can design anything you want. I don't think I'm going to invent new stock. There are good stocks out there so I'll pick one of them.

I used to be AutoCAD operator for Tools and Molds company. As we both know, I didn't create enough details on the rifle. I could do that but these images are for showing them that it is a good idea to design first before you start shrinking your wallet(s).
Thanks again for your input.
-Denny

 

[Steve Shelp]

Denny,
I have the McMillian 50HBR stock on my HG class rifle and have it all drawn up in ACAD R14 2D using projections if that would be any use to you. I laid it out with a block at one time and I think you could put a 3" or 3 1/4" wide vertical block in there if needed. Depending on what barrel diameter you use you probably won't need 3" though so you have plenty of meat to work with there. I have a 1.850" diamter barrel so it needed the extra width on the block. But have since decided against it's use. This season will hopefully tell me if that was the right decision or not. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Steve