Complete Newbie seeking advice for elk setup

[Idaho Lefty]

There are many good comments here and like many have stated,..
1) Use a 3.5-10X or, a 4.5-14X scope as you "may" get a 50-70 yard shot like, I just did a few weeks ago, in Ariz. The 10X, 14X, or, 16X on, the upper end, easily gets you to 700-800 yards or more, on a big animal, like an Elk. I was watching a herd at about, 300 yards up on a ridge, trying to pick out, the Bull my son saw, when another bunch came down the mountain from behind us and crossed our gulley at 65-70 yards, my scope was on 12X and I quickly turned it down to about 5X and shot 2-3" behind, the "Crease", from the sitting position, over "sticks". The 140 gr AccuBond, was still going at least, 3,100 FPS when it went thru the rib's, Lungs and clipped the Clavicle on the far side as he was not perfectly, broadside. I lost very little far side shoulder meat and he was only, lightly bloodshot around, the exit area. We lost a pound or two of meat, maximum. We like Elk Meat, so we ALWAYS shoot for the Heart Lung area, to avoid LOSING, the Backstrap Steaks or, Shoulder Roasts !
2) Get away, from the ABLR's as, they are, too "fragile" for any close shots (under 200 yd's ) as the ABLR's are designed, to expand down to, 1,300 FPS and will fragment and blow Blood and Meat, everywhere if, ANY bone, is hit! The regular AccuBond, is FINE !
3) I'd PERSONALLY use, a light enough bullet (165-180-200 grains) that, is fairly flat shooting and easy, on your shoulder, so you can PRACTICE, all the Field positions necessary to become,..."proficient" at, 50 to 750 yards, sitting position, over "Sticks" to 400 yards, Prone over a Pack or Bipod to however far that, you can REGULARLY hit, a 10"-12" Steel plate, in the WIND if, necessary ! For me that's 650 yards max with, less than a 15 MPH wind. Get a 10 mph, Wind chart made and add 50% if 15 mph ! If more than that, get way, WAY closer or, go back to camp as, an Elk is to great of, an animal to cripple and waste! As stated, by several people, MOST Elk are shot at, 400 yards or, LESS,..my son shot his Elk, here in Idaho at 250 yards. Good luck !

 

[WildRose]

Here is what I know:
Winchester Model 70 .300win mag
Athlon 8-34-56 Argos btr ffp
I want to kill an elk and feel confident pulling the trigger at 500-600 yds.

What I don't know:
What bases and rings to use
What bullets to use

Any advice on rings bases and bullets is welcomed and appreciated

You're way over scoped magnification wise. You don't "need" more than a 10x on the upper end and 24x is more than plenty.

Lots of quality bullets out there, the Nosler Accubond or Accubond LR is an excellent choice. The hornady ELD-X is another excellent bullet. Either in the 200gr range will give you good results.

If you want or need to shoot non toxics, I can't recommend the Peregrine VLR's highly enough. They are the most consistent bullets I've ever used expansion wise and they shoot very well especially at the ranges you're talking about.

I"d say seriously consider going to the .300 Rum though if you are serious about elk, the extra energy will help make up for less than perfect shots. They also make a target bullet identical ballistically to all of their VLR's that are much less expensive to give you an affordable option for practicing.

I have a couple of .300 Rum Model 70's, one is equipped with the VX-6 3-18x50, the other with the VX-6 4-24x52. Both are great scopes and more than ample magnification for your purposes.

 

[WildRose]

There are many good comments here and like many have stated,..
1) Use a 3.5-10X or, a 4.5-14X scope as you "may" get a 50-70 yard shot like, I just did a few weeks ago, in Ariz. The 10X, 14X, or, 16X on, the upper end, easily gets you to 700-800 yards or more, on a big animal, like an Elk. I was watching a herd at about, 300 yards up on a ridge, trying to pick out, the Bull my son saw, when another bunch came down the mountain from behind us and crossed our gulley at 65-70 yards, my scope was on 12X and I quickly turned it down to about 5X and shot 2-3" behind, the "Crease", from the sitting position, over "sticks". The 140 gr AccuBond, was still going at least, 3,100 FPS when it went thru the rib's, Lungs and clipped the Clavicle on the far side as he was not perfectly, broadside. I lost very little far side shoulder meat and he was only, lightly bloodshot around, the exit area. We lost a pound or two of meat, maximum. We like Elk Meat, so we ALWAYS shoot for the Heart Lung area, to avoid LOSING, the Backstrap Steaks or, Shoulder Roasts !
2) Get away, from the ABLR's as, they are, too "fragile" for any close shots (under 200 yd's ) as the ABLR's are designed, to expand down to, 1,300 FPS and will fragment and blow Blood and Meat, everywhere if, ANY bone, is hit! The regular AccuBond, is FINE !
3) I'd PERSONALLY use, a light enough bullet (165-180-200 grains) that, is fairly flat shooting and easy, on your shoulder, so you can PRACTICE, all the Field positions necessary to become,..."proficient" at, 50 to 750 yards, sitting position, over "Sticks" to 400 yards, Prone over a Pack or Bipod to however far that, you can REGULARLY hit, a 10"-12" Steel plate, in the WIND if, necessary ! For me that's 650 yards max with, less than a 15 MPH wind. Get a 10 mph, Wind chart made and add 50% if 15 mph ! If more than that, get way, WAY closer or, go back to camp as, an Elk is to great of, an animal to cripple and waste! As stated, by several people, MOST Elk are shot at, 400 yards or, LESS,..my son shot his Elk, here in Idaho at 250 yards. Good luck !

Can't be said often enough. When I went to Africa in 2015 I got reminded quickly that not being able to dial down far enough for surprise close shots can cause you far more problems than not having a high magnification on the upper end.

The first shot on my Blue Wildebeest proved not to be quickly fatal and when I approached him he got up awful mad. I had a VX3 6-24 mounted on that rifle and at ten yards it was way, way too much. I ended up putting my "finisher" into him by just angling the rifle over to the right and sighting right along the barrel. If I'd not practiced that in the past it could have turned ugly very quickly.

 

[WildRose]

Scope is in hand. I'm gonna use it. Do you suggest a picatinny rail base for the vortex precision matched rings?

You'd be better off selling it or trading it in on a lower power scope.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I use STEEL Burris Zee Rings, lapped and loctited. Our Tikka triggers are set at, 2-2.25 pounds, my sons scope is a Nikon 3-12X, mine is, a 4.5-14X Burris. Both our scopes are "Zeroed" at 200 and have custom Turret tapes, VALIDATED for our loads, to 750 yards. We "Dial" for any shot, past 300 yards. My son and I practice shooting our 7.5 pound Rifles, to 700 yards prone, over a Pack or, bipod with, a "Toe rest". The sitting position, over "Sticks" with, a Hunting Pack that's filled with, game bags, water, snacks, knife, paracord, puffy jacket and a rolled up Thermarest pad, used on our chest, to support/ steady, the "Toe" of the stock, to 400 yards. Get a good range finder (Sig 1200 to 2200 models, are what we use). I would recommend buying, a Kifaru gun bearer, for your Pack. Practice a LOT, in the rolling hill Desert/ Mountains like you would, when actually Hunting,.. walk, remove Pack, set up "sticks" or, Pack/ bipod, and in less than, ONE minute, find your steel plate and,.. shoot! Our family walks, stalks, glass-sits, hikes 2 to 5 miles, "IN" or, about, 4-10 miles per day, round trip "Hunting" Elk and sometimes we "Bivy Hunt", for 2-3 days, "in country". Longer range, 800-1200+ yards, is a whole nother "Ball game" and requires a very "specific" Rifle, scope, Ammo and data, spotting scopes, long distance range finders, etc. and they are usually, custom barreled, braked, much heavier and expensive, Rifles. 750-800 yards, max range, is about the "dividing line" between, the two types of, "Hunting"/ shooting !. After finding a "good" load and validating our scopes, we practice as stated from, 15 to 30 shots a Day, at steel from field positions,..that's the reason, i recommend an easy on the shoulder lighter bullet, so you don't develop, a "flinch"! Everything stated here, "works" for the person posting,.. find what, "works" for,.. YOU ! Again,.. good luck !!

 

[the hunter]

Look for a used vortex viper hs 2.5-10x44, or a leupold vx3i.
Amazon.com: Talley Picatinny Base Winchester Model 70 20 MOA Long Action: Sports & Outdoors.
There is a good rail to use.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I don't understand the push for lower maximum magnification. I look at field of view for the lowest magnification, not power setting. A 5-25X is a really nice magnification range to me. The field of view at 25 yards is more than adequate. I tried 6X a few years ago with a 4 1/2' foot field of view at 25 yards. It was near worthless for woods.

 

[FIGJAM]

I don't understand the push for lower maximum magnification. I look at field of view for the lowest magnification, not power setting. A 5-25X is a really nice magnification range to me. The field of view at 25 yards is more than adequate. I tried 6X a few years ago with a 4 1/2' foot field of view at 25 yards. It was near worthless for woods.

I know field of view has to do with the construction of the optic more than anything, but it also has a direct relationship to magnification. In any decent scope, FOV will be greater at lower magnifications. I think you have to define more than adequate - is it more than adequate to pick out the right elk moving through the trees at 25 yards? Or are you talking about sitting in a stand with a single small whitetail standing there where you have time to find the right chunk of fur to shoot at? 8x at 25 yards is still 8x regardless of the FOV. If we are talking about an elk, a patch of fur is all you will be able to see...

 

[FEENIX]

Here is what I know:
Winchester Model 70 .300win mag
Athlon 8-34-56 Argos btr ffp: low end is too high for closer shots, not ideal.
I want to kill an elk and feel confident pulling the trigger at 500-600 yds.

What I don't know:
What bases and rings to use: http://www.egwguns.com/scope-mounts...catinny-rail-scope-mount-20-moa-ambidextrous/ and bed it as required.

The https://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings is awesome and can provide up to 40 MOA.

What bullets to use: 200g or heavier. The 215 Berger is a golden match for the .300 WM.

Any advice on rings bases and bullets is welcomed and appreciated

Welcome to LRH and enjoy! You have been provided excellent advice from experienced and fellow out west elk hunters and I echo their recommendations.

Good luck!

 

[memtb]

I know field of view has to do with the construction of the optic more than anything, but it also has a direct relationship to magnification. In any decent scope, FOV will be greater at lower magnifications. I think you have to define more than adequate - is it more than adequate to pick out the right elk moving through the trees at 25 yards? Or are you talking about sitting in a stand with a single small whitetail standing there where you have time to find the right chunk of fur to shoot at? 8x at 25 yards is still 8x regardless of the FOV. If we are talking about an elk, a patch of fur is all you will be able to see...

YES! I would prefer to have minimal magnification, than too much magnification......." Everytime"! On a moving elk, in distances measured in feet rather than yards.....over magnification will be your "Achilles heel"! memtb

 

[FIGJAM]

Also, something to think about with regards to magnification ranges for elk hunting optics - its a helluva lot easier to sneak closer on an elk that is 700 yards away to compensate for a lower highend magnification than it is to sneak further away from an elk that is at 10 yards away to compensate for higher low end magnification.

 

[entoptics]

I would add one caveat to the "get a lower power" torrent of comments.

I believe the scope in question (Argos BTR) has an illuminated reticle. This can be used at very close range as an "occluded red dot" with practice.

With plenty of dry fire and live round practice, you can learn to shoot the scope "both eyes open" like a red dot on an AR15 or pistol. The right eye will see nothing but a nebulous image of elk fur, but the left eye will easily compensate, and it will be like shooting with no magnification.

There are a couple of serious issues to consider with this though...

1) Battery life. You'll want to leave the illumination on constantly, as the short shots usually happen quickly, and you'll want it at a relatively high power (both illumination and magnification) for good "dot" visibility. Bring spare batteries and check frequently to ensure it hasn't gone dead on you.

2A) Eye relief. Athlon states 3.3" for the BTR. This is CLOSE for a magnum rifle, and snap shooting it like a red dot will make the eye box hard to find. PRACTICE!

2B) Eye relief. This will also mean that in a quick and dirty situation, you may come up real close, and end up with a fashionable crescent shaped scar above your right eye. BE CAREFUL! I've seen a couple cases of "Scope Eye" that nearly warranted stitches. In one, the guy was dazed enough to drop his rifle and end up on his knees mumbling gibberish for a minute or two.

 

[FIGJAM]

I would add one caveat to the "get a lower power" torrent of comments.

I believe the scope in question (Argos BTR) has an illuminated reticle. This can be used at very close range as an "occluded red dot" with practice.

With plenty of dry fire and live round practice, you can learn to shoot the scope "both eyes open" like a red dot on an AR15 or pistol. The right eye will see nothing but a nebulous image of elk fur, but the left eye will easily compensate, and it will be like shooting with no magnification.

There are a couple of serious issues to consider with this though...

1) Battery life. You'll want to leave the illumination on constantly, as the short shots usually happen quickly, and you'll want it at a relatively high power (both illumination and magnification) for good "dot" visibility. Bring spare batteries and check frequently to ensure it hasn't gone dead on you.

2A) Eye relief. Athlon states 3.3" for the BTR. This is CLOSE for a magnum rifle, and snap shooting it like a red dot will make the eye box hard to find. PRACTICE!

2B) Eye relief. This will also mean that in a quick and dirty situation, you may come up real close, and end up with a fashionable crescent shaped scar above your right eye. BE CAREFUL! I've seen a couple cases of "Scope Eye" that nearly warranted stitches. In one, the guy was dazed enough to drop his rifle and end up on his knees mumbling gibberish for a minute or two.

Or...he could sell it or trade it for something more usuable if funds are tight. Or, if he has some christmas money, just spend a another $400 on a used Vortex 4-16x44 HSLR or HS-T. The additional $400 on the right scope or the effort to trade it will be a drop in the bucket with all of the expenses on an out of state hunt like the OP is talking about. If the hunt was next week then maybe deal with it - he is talking a 2019 hunt, still lots of time to get it figured out.

 

[DENWA]

1. Use a 200+ grain HUNTING bullet that gives you best accuracy and most confidence, NOSLER, Hornady and HAMMER all make good bullets that will do the job.

2. Don't get hung up on Brand names of rings/ bases. Go to local shop pickup and feel quality then buy it at the shop (or online if you are short money). Vortex, Leupold etc all make good mid price range stuff.

3. Spend more time practicing shooting. Off your pack, leaning on a tree, etc etc. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CONFIDENCE IN YOUR GEAR!

4. Don't sweat the scope too much. just practice. if possible have a spotter using some binos to help find and keep you on that ELK in some unfamiliar territory.

5. repeat #3 again