ntsqd
Well-Known Member
And in my experience the 300's are the best at galling to themselves and other alloys. Which is why I think they're terribly unsuited for use in firearms.
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Chromoly or Stainless?
- Thread starter Gwine
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shortgrass
Well-Known Member
Not just that ^^^^^^^, the 300 series is not heat treatable, as you mentioned. 17-4PH can be machined with HS tooling, but it is tough enough that carbide really works best and has some tool life. I made some muzzle brakes using 17-4PH. I could drill with a 135* split point HS, screw machine length bit, but my center drill was carbide as were all of the milling cutters. All work done under flood coolant. As for barrel materials, A CM can be the equal of a 416R SS as long as the same care in manufacture is used for both. I chamber at a slower RPM and feed when cutting CM , even though I'm running a muzzle flush system on my chambering lathe. Nitirdied CM comes back "as hard as the hubs", slick and as weather-proof as any other mentioned coating.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
When I worked in the race engine shop we did a "Cool-Case" (hardening) to the crankshaft bearing journals. My understanding was that this was a nitrating heat-treat process and I've been thinking that the process is similar to or the same as what is being done to barrels. Sure made the journals hard and much more impervious to abrasive junk in the oil. We sent the cranks out with polished journals and they usually needed little to no touch-up when they came back.
trappers son
Well-Known Member
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- May 19, 2012
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They use a stainless steel very close to 17-4 stainless which is the best barrel material there is for a magnum, but it is hell on a gunsmith and tooling.... But you titanium carbonitride it and it will handle pressure better than any other as barrel by leaps and bounds....
65WSM
Well-Known Member
My choice has been nitride finished Brux or McGowen chrome moly alloy. I do 3-6 custom barrels a year. No naked bullets. Shoot coated bullets all the time.
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
17-4 is roughly 2 1/2 times the cost of 416R per bar foot. Add in the tool wear it brings, the slower feeds required, and you can see why it is not the "preferred" SS for rifle barrels.
If you use carbide, do you still have to slow it down? Does it wear the carbide inserts much more than ss? I've never messed with it
trappers son
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2012
- Messages
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It's not preferred by smiths because they make money making new barrels and it is more expensive.... As a shooter I would rather shoot 17-4 no matter the cost because if you are spending 4-7 k on a rig rings scope and ammo you want it to last more than 700 rounds.
With the new high pressure rounds that will be replacing the normal 65k psi you will need a barrel and action that will handle the 80 k psi....
A new level of firearm is on the horizon and to get the level of performance you are going to need the whole package... Stronger cases, stronger barrels, and stronger actions. Regular stainless steel is the norm, not because it is better, just because it's cheaper to produce and companies will continue to sale lower quality high priced items as long as better alternatives are not on the market....
If I was going to have to spend 10 k on a rifle like some of these over priced outfits sale, I would spend it on a rifle that shot brass that was consistent, long lasting, ergo not made by hornady, with a case design built for long bullets at high pressure. The action would be strong like a weatherby, have a 45 degree pull and would not be a remake of the same 700 action two lug crap that handled high pressure thresholds with gas escape safety designs that would direct gas from a shooters face. It would have a super high quality barrel that was worth the cost and allowed a person to pass down the rig to the next generation and have a rifle worth actual and sentimental value.
Imagine that.... A gun actually worth 10k...
With the new high pressure rounds that will be replacing the normal 65k psi you will need a barrel and action that will handle the 80 k psi....
A new level of firearm is on the horizon and to get the level of performance you are going to need the whole package... Stronger cases, stronger barrels, and stronger actions. Regular stainless steel is the norm, not because it is better, just because it's cheaper to produce and companies will continue to sale lower quality high priced items as long as better alternatives are not on the market....
If I was going to have to spend 10 k on a rifle like some of these over priced outfits sale, I would spend it on a rifle that shot brass that was consistent, long lasting, ergo not made by hornady, with a case design built for long bullets at high pressure. The action would be strong like a weatherby, have a 45 degree pull and would not be a remake of the same 700 action two lug crap that handled high pressure thresholds with gas escape safety designs that would direct gas from a shooters face. It would have a super high quality barrel that was worth the cost and allowed a person to pass down the rig to the next generation and have a rifle worth actual and sentimental value.
Imagine that.... A gun actually worth 10k...
RH300UM
Well-Known Member
Old thread but
And do you still think the nitride process is worth the cost vs longevity?
Who did your barrel?
And do you still think the nitride process is worth the cost vs longevity?
65WSM
Well-Known Member
Why cerekote? Why not nitrocarburized? That will stretch the hardness to near the limit of being measured, 70. The barrel will be slicker inside and increase the life. I have 16 nitrocarburized barrels including on twos wildcat that is the ballistic equivalent of the .22 Creedmore. I have worn out 5 nitrocarburized barrels. You can use either Chrome Moly or Stainless steel. I had a nitrocarburized .224 barrel delivered by UPS. It was loose in the box. The driver tilted the box and the barrel hit the concrete right in front of me from the back of the truck. It made a memorable ring and left a dent in the concrete. I brushed the concrete dust off the muzzle and couldn't see any damage at all. I don't know how many times it hit the pavement while UPS had it. Try that with your cerekote. I have a friend in Sitka. I traded rifles with him. He reports that the nitrocarburized barrel on the .22-250 Ackley has held up well, in and out of an open boat and surf on Baranoff Island. He lost overboard another rifle that I traded to him. He has been a good salt spray tester.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
Who does the process on rifle barrels?
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
I have been using Controlled Thermal Technologies in Phoenix. I send a 'batch', meaning more than 3 to make the cost worthwhile. CM and SS are not treated at the same time. Different temps, I think. Barrels need to be new, freshly chambered with only a few rounds fired. They need to be 'squeaky' clean , also, with all traces of fouling removed.
Have you ever had your barrels cut and tested for bore nitride penetration depth?
I arranged with a local heat treater in the Portland area to do the tests, but been so darned busy have not had time to make it over.
When I find the time, I'll bring him some dead 416R and CrMo barrels to nitrocarburize and test. He had his doubts about the efficacy on barrels in an atmospheric furnace because it still requires flow of the atmosphere through the barrel and the heat/diffusion time is much longer. Plasma is strictly line of sight, so is ineffective.
Salt baths are the best and fastest. There aren't too many places that still do a fluidized bed of nitrogen rich salts, or at least I had a hard time finding anyone in the PNW. Back when I designed heat treating equipment, we used to do it with NaCN if it wasn't an ammonia atmosphere furnace.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
Shortgrass, Thank you!!
