cheney incident

[bailey1474]

I think we should petition our congressmen for a bill that would allow people who have passed certain intelligence tests or proven through various actions not to be stupid a 3 stupid person bag limit per year. Sure would make people stop acting so stupid, knowing they might get a cap in their @$$!!! I'm pretty sure I would use mine in Jan. every year, if of course I didn't get shot first /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

 

[LB]

Now, when all the spin is finished, he still shot a companion hunter, and he's embarassed (and he should be) and has yet to confront the Media with his explanations, which are necessary.

The bird stamp issue is bs, he paid $125 so the regulation was changed about the same tme he bought the license, apparently several months ago, last year? If he knew, he would have paid seven dollars more.

But, he got this guy pretty good, made a nice pattern on the left side of his upper chest. A major mistake.

However, the guy had exited the vehicle and downed a bird. He searched for the bird while Cheney and another hunter went down the road a distance from the vehicle. So, the lawyer found his bird and walked up behing the other two without letting them know he was approaching. That's not as serious as Cheney's mistake, but it's a contributing factor.

The "media" will be all over this incident. Cheney doesn't need it, the victim doesn't need it, and hunters don't need it. But, the media loves it. Makes you wonder what motivates them? Pure news value? Or, spoon feeding the masses, their own agenda? I think I know the answer?

Good hunting. LB

 

[jeffbird]

The power of shotguns is not fully appreciated by many. To those thinking a 28 ga. doesn't "pack a punch" here is a comparison of the data with a 44 mag 240 gr. I have to use grams for bullet/shot wt. to have equal units of measurement

28 ga. 1295 fps muz vel 21.26 gms. (shot wt.)

44 Mag. 1210 fps muz vel 15.55 gms. (240 gr.)

The 28 ga. moves a 1/3 heavier load faster. Obviously there are some important differences, most important being how many of the actual shot pellets impacted the person, which has not been reported anywhere that I have seen. A 28 ga. is potentially a very lethal weapon within 30 yards. The size of the shotgun round - i.e. 12 vs. 20 vs. 28 vs. 410 - only effects the number of pellets contained in the load, it does not effect the size of the pellet or the velocity. Next issue is the shot size and impact areas. 7 1/2 shot as is commonly used for quail hunting has significant penetration potential.

Next, having some vague knowledge of the Armstrong ranch, I would make an educated guess these are wild birds, not some of the pen raised chicken hunt type of thing.

The Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept. incident report is available online. Both the shooter and the victim were wearing orange hats and vests which makes this even more inexplicable.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Varmint Hunter, not true about Pheasant Preserves. I've hunted in your state and the season runs from September to end of March on Pheasant preserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hootershooter,

I think that you are technically correct on the "preserve" season. The closing date is actually flexible depending on a variety of conditions. I should have said that a preserve shoot would not be limited to the regular hunting season dates.

Nice catch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[duckinalaska]

Guys,
I just had to get in on this one. With the media the way it is, what probably happened was this. They scared up a quail, and it took a nasty skat on the mans shoulder. Then it all got twisted and turned around to be some other tragedy to bash our vp.

 

[Buffalobob]

Leonard
I just can't resist that one.

[ QUOTE ]
The bird stamp issue is bs, he paid $125 so the regulation was changed about the same tme he bought the license, apparently several months ago, last year? If he knew, he would have paid seven dollars more.



[/ QUOTE ]

That is the same line I always give to the Highway Patrol. "I have a drivers license, my vhicle is properly registered, I got the best tires money can buy and aftermaket brakes and suspension. You shouldn't give me a ticket just becuase I was 32 mph over the speed limit."

It hasn't ever worked yet for me. Still about $100 to $150 a pop depending on what state I'm in.

Of course there was a small period of time when I couldn't truthfuly say I had a drivers license. **** computers transfered the points in.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[LB]

Don't get me wrong, Bob. I'm not defending the guy. If he is fined, I could care less. But, when you walk in and ask for a nonres lic. you are sort of dependant on the guy writing the ticket to define the license and collect the fee.

My case in point is that I was in Texas, hog, sheep and coyote hunting in late October. My license was $50. I paid what they said it cost, that's it. Now, they are saying that Cheney bought his license in September and he paid $125. It looks like he made an honest effort to pay the going rate, at a time when the reg. was changing; whereas you intentionally(?) exceeded the posted speed limit by 32MPH. Not a good comparison, IMO.

Good hunting. LB

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I agree with LB on the stamp issue. When I am hunting out-of-state I normally use a guide. I fill out the application and/or permits as I am advised to. It would be entirely possible for the guide to neglect to advise me of a necessary stamp or special permit and I'd probably never realize it.

 

[Buffalobob]

Leonard & VH

I actually totally agree with you. I just thought Leonard's line of reasoning had never worked out for me. Maryland and West Virginia have a million stamps and special permits each and all you can do is tell the clerk that you are out of state and what you want to hunt. You write your check and hope it is right. Most of the time the wardens that check you don't know either.

However, if you don't have what you need to have then it doesn't mattter what line of BS you give them, you are still in deep road muffins (or in my case 4 more points against my drivers license).

 

[HooterShooter]

Varmint Hunter, I wasn't trying to correct you. Just illustrating that the regs vary from place to place and species to species and little mistakes often occur.

Using the reasonable man principle It is clear that he "intended" to be correctly licensed. Missing the $7 stamp is NOT unreasonable. Its not like he didn't have a hunting license.

With all that aside.....if he turned around to shoot a bird then he is an A-hole. Varmint, you know that parts of your state (NY) just opened rifle hunting in formerly shotgun only areas. I've spoken to some farmers there that have told me that they are reluctant to let people deer hunt with a rifle. I don't agree with their logic, but I respect it because its there land. But, I do tell them that bird hunting is more dangerous than deer with a rifle because shooting a deer (even with a bow from a treestand) is a planned deliberate shot and bird hunting is fast and a reflex action. Maybe now they will see the truth.

I passed a shot on a Pheasant last week in NJ at a friends place because the dog (dog was a newbie and learning) went on point but the bird walked about 10 yards to my left. When I heard him fly I turned but did not shoot because I did not know who or what was there. People need to understand the rules of bird hunting.

 

[Underclocked]

So how far away would a person shot with a 28 gauge quail load have to be before there would be no significant penetration? How about a .44 Magnum?

 

[Nomosendero]

I wish the best for the man that was shot. Like you said,both men made a bad mistake that day & as allways we
have to see what is on the other side of the target. Difficult on a passing Bird, but necessary.

Sadly, my gut feeling on this matter is that the Liberal
media & the Liberal politicians want the worst for this
gentlemen in order to get to Cheeny & hurt hunters in general. I hope that I am wrong.

 

[grit]

I remember two similar cases from my teenage years. A police officer in our neighborhood shot another hunter on a pheasant hunt. I remember the talk. Every bit of it was heartfelt concern and sympathy for both parties.

It is truly tragic that we as a country, with all our different opinions, can't show the same respect and concern. I am grateful to have our country governed by those who understand and love our hunting traditions. I am anxious over the fuel this accident has provided for those who seek to take our freedoms.

I read with mixed feelings the statements condemning Cheney. There are reckless people I wouldn't hunt or shoot with. However, if we're honest with ourselves, I believe many of us can recall an instance where we forgot, just for a moment, the power we held in our hands.

I know I can recall, with horror, a time or two I nearly made a mistake. I've discussed these things with friends and family, and have heard similar stories. This is a good opportunity to revisit and reinforce our sfety teachings and habits.

I sincerely hope the injured man will make a full recovery. And Cheney will be able to make a dignified statement, to the public, accepting his mistake and quelling the frenzy the antis will have.

The fear of losing my right to keep and bear arms is unsettling to me. I believe the long range equiptment is quite vulnerable, especially with it's growing popularity.

Good hunting.