CCI 250 not igniting

[skipglo]

Hello, so I am having a lan issue with primers not igniting on the first strike.

Here is the scenario, CCI 250 primers in ADG Brass and loaded via a Forster press are not igniting in the first strike but when I cycle the bolt handle to re-arm the firing pin they always go boom the second time. The velocity and groups are all consistent even on the misfires. It is happening in about 30% of the rounds and in 3 different calibers/rifles. I have loaded these rounds and then shot them within 24-72 hours afterwards. Humidity and other environmental concerns I think are mitigated. At the same time I load and shoot these problem rounds, I'm loading and shooting FGMM215/210 and Lapua brass with no issues so it would seem something is going on in one or more of the primer/brass/seating method. Primers are from the same lot #.

Has anyone else had this issue? Thanks

Bad batch of primers is where I'd start. Change out to Federal. 5.00 fix if it goes away....if they were seated out to far you can't get them out of your shell holder...in to far could only happen if you reamed the pockets to deep

 

[Dogface369]

We're making this way too complicated. If it was bad primers or flash holes you don't get these symptoms. The primers are not firing first time but always the second hit. First hit seats, second fires. The fact that it's 30% of the time is not one time issue.

The primer cup could be too hard or two thick. I experience it a lot shooting military surplus 9mm designed for MGs and used in pistols. First shot nothing, second shot bang.

I would call CCI with the lot number and explain what is happening. If they had a particular lot of primers with hard cups they would know.

 

[Critter Picker]

Hello, so I am having a lan issue with primers not igniting on the first strike.

Here is the scenario, CCI 250 primers in ADG Brass and loaded via a Forster press are not igniting in the first strike but when I cycle the bolt handle to re-arm the firing pin they always go boom the second time. The velocity and groups are all consistent even on the misfires. It is happening in about 30% of the rounds and in 3 different calibers/rifles. I have loaded these rounds and then shot them within 24-72 hours afterwards. Humidity and other environmental concerns I think are mitigated. At the same time I load and shoot these problem rounds, I'm loading and shooting FGMM215/210 and Lapua brass with no issues so it would seem something is going on in one or more of the primer/brass/seating method. Primers are from the same lot #.

Has anyone else had this issue? Thanks

Did you clean the primer pockets?

 

[Critter Picker]

The Forster Co-Ax press is designed so the primers can only be seated to a max depth of 0.004" below the surface of the case head. Can you measure how deep the primer pocket is with your callipers then measure one of your CCI primers height and deduct the primer height from the pocket depth? If the difference is more than .004" then the Foster press won't seat them deep enough.

POCKETS?

Did not know this.

 

[morgaj1]

WAR EAGLE! New member I'm in Opelika

War Eagle!

 

[Richard Crain]

Hello, so I am having a lan issue with primers not igniting on the first strike.

Here is the scenario, CCI 250 primers in ADG Brass and loaded via a Forster press are not igniting in the first strike but when I cycle the bolt handle to re-arm the firing pin they always go boom the second time. The velocity and groups are all consistent even on the misfires. It is happening in about 30% of the rounds and in 3 different calibers/rifles. I have loaded these rounds and then shot them within 24-72 hours afterwards. Humidity and other environmental concerns I think are mitigated. At the same time I load and shoot these problem rounds, I'm loading and shooting FGMM215/210 and Lapua brass with no issues so it would seem something is going on in one or more of the primer/brass/seating method. Primers are from the same lot #.

Has anyone else had this issue? Thanks

I had same problem with Lapua brass about one on fifty miss fired.

 

[Idaho Hunter1]

We're making this way too complicated. If it was bad primers or flash holes you don't get these symptoms. The primers are not firing first time but always the second hit. First hit seats, second fires. The fact that it's 30% of the time is not one time issue.

I think this is where I am at as well. Bought a Frankford Arsenal hand primer and will try it. Didn't know the Forster was able to only load to ".004" depth.

I loaded a couple cci250 with the Forster after this discussion and then hit it with the Frankford, and I can see the depth change. Will know if this works soon.

 

[GLRUT]

I have had that problem with a couple 30-338 lapua improved I built. My problem was to light of a firing pin spring. Changed to a 28# spring and haven't had a misfire since.

 

[jpndave]

The primer cup could be too hard or two thick. I experience it a lot shooting military surplus 9mm designed for MGs and used in pistols. First shot nothing, second shot bang.

I would call CCI with the lot number and explain what is happening. If they had a particular lot of primers with hard cups they would know.

That could be a possibility except for this and the Forster press isn't fully seating the primers. The firing pin however, is when it hits the first time. Then the second time, bang.

I think this is it! I just measured and it looks like the space is greater than .004. I also measured the FGMM vs the CCI250 and the FGMM are a bit thicker.

I'll try a hand seater.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[Blackhawk]

We're making this way too complicated. If it was bad primers or flash holes you don't get these symptoms. The primers are not firing first time but always the second hit. First hit seats, second fires. The fact that it's 30% of the time is not one time issue.

You still must go through the process of elimination in order to find and then rectify said issues!

 

[edward hogan]

Hello, so I am having a lan issue with primers not igniting on the first strike.

Here is the scenario, CCI 250 primers in ADG Brass and loaded via a Forster press are not igniting in the first strike but when I cycle the bolt handle to re-arm the firing pin they always go boom the second time. The velocity and groups are all consistent even on the misfires. It is happening in about 30% of the rounds and in 3 different calibers/rifles. I have loaded these rounds and then shot them within 24-72 hours afterwards. Humidity and other environmental concerns I think are mitigated. At the same time I load and shoot these problem rounds, I'm loading and shooting FGMM215/210 and Lapua brass with no issues so it would seem something is going on in one or more of the primer/brass/seating method. Primers are from the same lot #.

Has anyone else had this issue? Thanks

Have you contacted CCI? Not that they will be much "help", in my experience, but start there...

I bought a carton of CCI sm riffle primers for use in .454 Casull handloads. Working with new Starline brass which was Very High Quality back in 2005. Never any previous problem w/CCI primers, but I got a bad lot with these. The customer service guy had me inspect all the ammo, (400+ rds) for high primer seats. A few rounds fired fine... Measured the primer pocket depth and all were seated below the rim. Starline brass is/was very uniform measured on depth mic. The CCI svc guy promised to replace the carton of primers, but never did.

Wound up pulling all the bullets etc and depriming the cases. Have never bought CCI primers since.

The loading component business is great for the sellers. Defective product either goes up in smoke, or it's the gun or loader's fault. Never had a failure to ignite before this batch of ammo; never had one since. Defective products happen. CCI-guy's failure to fulfill his promise to deliver new carton and pickup defective one soured me on further use of their products. Hope your experience turns out better.

 

[Blackhawk]

I think this is where I am at as well. Bought a Frankford Arsenal hand primer and will try it. Didn't know the Forster was able to only load to ".004" depth.

I loaded a couple cci250 with the Forster after this discussion and then hit it with the Frankford, and I can see the depth change. Will know if this works soon.

You will like it, of that I'm certain!
Please do not over seat your primers. If recessed to deeply you may encounter light primer strikes.
About -.003" sub flush is just about the right primer seating depth.

 

[edward hogan]

If you are seeking precision handload results from your efforts this is one of those buy once, cry once situations. Redding, Forster, Wilson, and Sinclair-Brownells sell the tools benchrest and precision shooters depend on. Their carbide primer pocket uniformers are industry standards. Lapua and Starline brass when new have never been undersized in my experience. Never bought much Norma, but Rem, Win, Fed will be shallow enough that the uniformer will remove brass.

A large number of benchrest shooters used to use the Lee hand priming tool; cheap, great for feeling the seat, and reliable.

Lapua brass has a known issue with Win lg rifle primers being under-size diameter. I was about to throw away a bunch of .308win brass years ago when found this tidbit on one of the National Match boards. Other primer makes fit the Lapua brass just fine.

The Brownells tech line can be especially helpful. The techs at Redding and Forster are also excellent. A few years before they folded, Precision Shooting magazine published The Benchrest Primer. Lots of great info about precision loadiing in there if you can find a copy. Sinclair used to publish an Ibico bound book about Precision Handloading and Scope Mounting. Seen them on Ebay.

As member above says, if the .04" depth of the Forster seating ram is not enough, you are reaming your primer pockets too deep. Very easy to ruin brass if you don't know what you're doing.... Over-trimming, widening flash holes, reaming primer pockets too deep, performing some operations before the brass is once-fired... If you're looking to get the best ammunition possible, it's worth reading up on how the best shooters make theirs.

Should probably contact Forster and get their thoughts on why you're having trouble using their Co-Ax primer seater. Nice people at Forster.

 

[Coyoteee]

I haven't read this thread completely, so maybe it's covered. And it's not mentioned what the chambering is of the rifle that's being used, whether it's a belted cartridge or one that headspace son the shoulder. I've had a similar problem with a 204R. First strike it misfired and second it fired.

my prob was a headspace problem. New batch of brass, with an inconsistent headspace measurement throughout the whole batch. In my case what was happening, the first strike would push the case forward and the second would fire it. A difference I had was that a lot of them had a proper headspace and would fire at first strike. And some of them would pierce the primer on the first strike. In the case of the pierced primer, the strike would send the cartridge forward and it would fire and the brass would slam back against the pin before it had a chance to retract.