Can you satterlee/ladder test on virgin brass?

[SteveBurton]

I've done is several times when using quality brass like Peterson, Lapua and even the new Hornady. After it's fireformed, my velocities have remained the same.

 

[six pack]

I used to worry about that too. However, I found out that in most cases, you will have a load for virgin brass and might need to tweak it a bit but you'll be pretty close with fire formed brass. My most recent effort was with my 338 LM using virgin Lapua brass, RL 33 powder, and 300g Nosler Accubonds. Thought "what the heck" I'll just pick one out of the Nosler data to fire form. Result...seriously...a load that has a habit of putting 5 through one ragged hole at 2700fps. As they say, sometimes the blind hog finds an acorn.

 

[redneckdan]

In my experience, with the satterlee method, I'm looking for a wide node. The wider node is less sensitive to variations in components causing velocity inconsistencies. FF brass may not give exact data on the node but should prove its existence.

 

[COBrad]

Interesting thread. I've done a lot of load development while fire forming brass. Usually it gets me close enough to fine tune a promising load. I use the highest quality brass I can get, and sort by neck thickness to +/- .0005. Those that don't make the cut are formed while practicing with an already developed load. On my custom rifles I neck turn the ones that don't make first cut unless they're a couple thou off then those are used to set up dies or case trimmer.

 

[WildRose]

Hey all,

Curious if any of you have ran satterlee testing on Virgin brass and still had the results holdup after resizing? This is not a post to debate whether satterlee works (it has for me on numerous occasions) but I've always done it on full length sized brass after being shot in my chamber. If it didn't hold up...did it get you close and essentially you could run a mini satterlee around the original node you found on the virgin brass? For example a typical satterlee is 10 shots in .2 grain increments. So lets say You identify a possible node at 45 grains so you load up 3 and shoot in that node for to verify low SD and ES. If that confirms consistent then typically you are good. Now you shoot your resized brass and it no longer holds up. Maybe instead of doing a whole new workup, you simply load 5 in .2 grains around the 45 grain original and see where the node maybe shifted to?

I would not waste my time with it. I'd go ahead and resize it first. I've found it a good idea to resize all brass, even Lapua before loading it the first time.

 

[GrayCreed]

I'd do it, then just move UP .1 of a grain after fire forming. The flat spot seems to be more affected by primer type in my tests and of course powder compression. If your not compressing, it should be close.

 

[PNWdude67]

I think this would be half useless, since you will have to do it again on the formed/sized brass. you might get a load for new brass out of it that is all.

Why? I have done a ladder test with all varieties of virgin brass I load for and it is as useful as a ladder test can be to identify a load to hone in on. Just shot the exact same load I developed with virgin 6.5x47/144 LRHT and 7 Sherman Short 185/RDF in the last two team matches we shot october and this month respectively. All four barrels hammered very constantly both days of each match. I do a modified satterlee test last several barrels to save time and ammo. Virgin brass vs once fired is not an issue from my experience.

 

[Mark37082]

I was scratching my head with the same question. I do think you can get some rough ideas with virgin or once fired brass. I am using up some of my least favorite and most plentiful components until I get 2X fired (belted magnums). Just neck sized until I get a snug chamber fit. Then FL size and bump shoulders .002. Fine tune load from there. I'm using ADG and Peterson now.