Can shooting into the wind lift your bullet?

[WildRose]

Yes, good place to start and also you can recheck zero and load accuracy at the same time.

If it proves to not track look real close for any mount problems that could be inducing stress in the scope tube.

I would probably test at 10 moa and 20 moa. Just take 1.047 x the dialed in moa and that is how far the point of impact should move, in inches, at exactly 100 yards.

Jeff

I'm with Broz here.

Wind can lift your bullet IF you are shooting into a rising wind running up a slope but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

When you mounted the scope rail did you bed it? I've found that if you do it eliminates almost entirely any problem with it ever breaking loose and wallowing out the mounting holes or worse shearing off the screws.

On heavy recoiling rifles if you don't have NF or Ferrell rails that actually lock with a set screw or tab to the action there's a good chance sooner or later it's going to pop loose.

On such rails it's not a bad Idea at all to take it to a gunsmith and have them drill one hole and set a pin to eliminate shearing forces forever.

The Vortex is not a particularly heavy scope but that is certainly a possibility.

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

I'm with Broz here.

Wind can lift your bullet IF you are shooting into a rising wind running up a slope but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

When you mounted the scope rail did you bed it? I've found that if you do it eliminates almost entirely any problem with it ever breaking loose and wallowing out the mounting holes or worse shearing off the screws.

On heavy recoiling rifles if you don't have NF or Ferrell rails that actually lock with a set screw or tab to the action there's a good chance sooner or later it's going to pop loose.

On such rails it's not a bad Idea at all to take it to a gunsmith and have them drill one hole and set a pin to eliminate shearing forces forever.

The Vortex is not a particularly heavy scope but that is certainly a possibility.

I didn't bed the rail. I did however remove it and inspect it before the last scope mount. Everything looked fine and I re mounted it with blue lock tight. The rifle has a 4 port muscle brake on it and the recoil is like shooting a 243.

I'm just getting real tired of burning rounds trying to figure this out. I will test the tracking in a couple of days. If its off I will have my smith check the ring alignment. My hunch is it's the mechanics of the scope. Really wanted to use this gun for a bear hunt the end of the month but I don't trust the scope yet.

 

[WildRose]

I didn't bed the rail. I did however remove it and inspect it before the last scope mount. Everything looked fine and I re mounted it with blue lock tight. The rifle has a 4 port muscle brake on it and the recoil is like shooting a 243.

I'm just getting real tired of burning rounds trying to figure this out. I will test the tracking in a couple of days. If its off I will have my smith check the ring alignment. My hunch is it's the mechanics of the scope. Really wanted to use this gun for a bear hunt the end of the month but I don't trust the scope yet.

There's still a hell of a shock when you pull the trigger even though the brake works well. About 30-40% of the recoil comes from the inertia of the bullet leaving the chamber and slamming into the lans.

Even the slightest hint of looseness in your mounts, even if you can't detect it can cause shattered reticles and result eventually in sheared off screws.

If you're going to take it to the gunsmith anyhow I'd bed it with JB or Devcon before you take it in and have him put one pin in. That way if you ever go to a heavier scope you're already covered and either way you'll never have to worry about it again. Even just a single 1/16" 3/32" pin pretty much eliminates any possibility of it ever breaking loose under any circumstances and it's a really cheap, quick, fix or preventive measure.

I had one vortex that wouldn't hold zero either and didn't track right and it really drove me nuts and cost me a lot of wasted ammo so I understand where you are with this very well.

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

There's still a hell of a shock when you pull the trigger even though the brake works well. About 30-40% of the recoil comes from the inertia of the bullet leaving the chamber and slamming into the lans.

Even the slightest hint of looseness in your mounts, even if you can't detect it can cause shattered reticles and result eventually in sheared off screws.

If you're going to take it to the gunsmith anyhow I'd bed it with JB or Devcon before you take it in and have him put one pin in. That way if you ever go to a heavier scope you're already covered and either way you'll never have to worry about it again. Even just a single 1/16" 3/32" pin pretty much eliminates any possibility of it ever breaking loose under any circumstances and it's a really cheap, quick, fix or preventive measure.

I had one vortex that wouldn't hold zero either and didn't track right and it really drove me nuts and cost me a lot of wasted ammo so I understand where you are with this very well.

Did your problem turn out to be the scope? Iv'e never had a problem like this with my previous long range rigs running leupolds.

 

[WildRose]

Did your problem turn out to be the scope? Iv'e never had a problem like this with my previous long range rigs running leupolds.

Yep I've had a few work loose over the years. Bedding the rail to the receiver solved it for me.

With heavier rigs it's not as likely but with a lighter carry rig it can happen very quickly.

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

Ok so I went back to the range. First I did a tracking test. It seemed to be about an inch low at 12 MOA and about 3" low at 24 MOA. Then I shot the gongs at 600, 800, 900 & 1000. It was spot on to 800. It was shooting high at 900 and 1000. I realized I hadn't figured in the angle at 900 & 1000. I adjusted for range and was a lot closer to where I want to be but a little high still.

So I don't really know what to think. Tracking shows low at 100 yards. Could rings not being perfectly aligned cause that low tracking issue?

 

[Broz]

Rings that are out of alignment will induce stress on the scope tube and can have an effect on the travel of the turret in relation to moving the reticle.


So do I have this correct?

You shot zero and it was on at 100 right?

You dialed up 12 moa and shot again using the same point of aim as your zero and the point of impact was 1" low or about 11.5" above the zero?

Then you dialed up 24 moa and shot again still using the zero point of aim and it was 3" low or only 22" above the zero group?

Also when shooting these in like this we must remember the error factors both human and mechanical. So if the rifle , ammo and shooter combination is a 3/4 moa system the 12 moa was not terribly far off.

But the 3" at 24 moa is a lot.

Now the next question is when you dial up 24 moa you do still have plenty of elevation adjustment left correct? I have seen some scopes track a little less the last few moa at the top.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Ok so I went back to the range. First I did a tracking test. It seemed to be about an inch low at 12 MOA and about 3" low at 24 MOA. Then I shot the gongs at 600, 800, 900 & 1000. It was spot on to 800. It was shooting high at 900 and 1000. I realized I hadn't figured in the angle at 900 & 1000. I adjusted for range and was a lot closer to where I want to be but a little high still.

So I don't really know what to think. Tracking shows low at 100 yards. Could rings not being perfectly aligned cause that low tracking issue?

I am a bit confused here. You stated that in the 100 yard tracking test when you dialed 24 moa, which is close to a 1000 yard shot, you were 3" low which is 3 moa.

Then you go on to say after all data entry you were high at 1000. That 3 moa you were low at 100 should put you 31.4" low at 1000???

What size groups will this rifle shoot for you on a consistent basis at 100?

Jeff

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

I am a bit confused here. You stated that in the 100 yard tracking test when you dialed 24 moa, which is close to a 1000 yard shot, you were 3" low which is 3 moa.

Then you go on to say after all data entry you were high at 1000. That 3 moa you were low at 100 should put you 31.4" low at 1000???

What size groups will this rifle shoot for you on a consistent basis at 100?

Jeff

Yes exactly, thats why I'm confused also. It shoots 1/2 MOA. My dope for 1000 was at 26.6 MOA. But there was a slight angle to which it equates to 980 yards. So I don't know if it's human error or what. It tracks low at 24 moa.

 

[RMulhern]

Sounds like a job for....what??

NIGHTFORCE!!

lightbulb

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

Sounds like a job for....what??

NIGHTFORCE!!

lightbulb

I agree.

 

[Broz]

I am all about the Nightforce. They are what I shoot.

But the fact still remains that your testing shows the scope to track low at 24 moa at 100 yards and when you dial 26 moa for 1000 it shoots high???

I truly believe you have another issue to figure out. If you do not find the culprit it will not be fixed by changing out components that are not the issue.

The 3 moa low with 24 moa dialed at 100 will not compute to the rifle shooting high at 26 moa dial up at 1000.

Put a zero aim point at 100, dial up 26 moa and shoot it a couple times. It should be 27.22" above the aim point. If it is close to this you have another problem and I think you do.

So for your previous testing at 100 were the groups 1/2" or close?

Jeff

 

[Broz]

BigCat, where are you located?

Jeff

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

BigCat, where are you located?

Jeff

Bend, Oregon