Gee. Guess that I'm just lucky. I started the tumbler and went on to other business - and totally forgot that I had brass tumbling. Five hours later, I remembered. Not the first time that I've let things run too long. However, never a problem. Maybe my rifles are all just worn out......like I'm getting to be......so neither they nor I noticed any peening. Must look up that AMP article, too.
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Can brass be damaged from over cleaning with stainless pins?
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Legionnaire
Well-Known Member
How much water are you putting in the tumbler? I fill mine to the point of minimal air space and have never noticed a problem. I can imagine peening if there is too little water in the drum.
D
Deleted member 107796
Guest
Agreed. I think the SS pin tumbling process works for some and that is to be respected, but I believe it is not an optimized process. I was reflecting on the polishing and cleaning processes I used in machining metals over the years and when using harder materials (aluminum oxide, jeweller's rouge, emery, silicon carbide, diamond), than the material being cleaned, it is well more controlled in its' use. I think the SS media is an idea to clean well in a short time but can definitely damage brass. Perhaps the pins shape or lowering vibration force could fix this?
PddPdd
Well-Known Member
I too found some problems with the exterior surface of the brass changing color & perhaps composition if I put too much lemishine in the tumbler. I only use 1/2 teaspoon now. Also the peening issue may vary depending on the diameter of the tumbler. I use a small Harbor Freight tumbler that only has about a 3-1/2" diameter so less distance for the brass to fall versus some of the larger tumblers. I also switched to Southern Shine media instead SS pins which has resulted in no more stuck pins in primer holes. I now only run the tumbler about 15 minutes for rifle brass to avoid completely cleaning the case neck interiors for neck tension reasons.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
SS wet cleaning is no issue for brass hardness. It is a cold process and doesn't work harden it. Most people clean around 2-3 hours. The case mouth and rim can be dinged slight but not significantly more than a vibration dry media process. You should always run a chamfer tool round the cases before sizing anyway, no matter the process, but wet ss can create a little more uneven surface.
Pins being stuck in the case are a possibility. I take my cases out of the tumbler, strain, put them on a cotton towel. I shake the heck out them back and forth then move them to a new dry towel and let sit over night. Next day I repeat the shake back and forth and put brass in the container. While moving piece of brass I tip them mouth down. Usually they go mouth down into a cartridge box as well so the flash hole is visible. I have yet to have a steel pin stuck in a case, but it does happen.
Pins being stuck in the case are a possibility. I take my cases out of the tumbler, strain, put them on a cotton towel. I shake the heck out them back and forth then move them to a new dry towel and let sit over night. Next day I repeat the shake back and forth and put brass in the container. While moving piece of brass I tip them mouth down. Usually they go mouth down into a cartridge box as well so the flash hole is visible. I have yet to have a steel pin stuck in a case, but it does happen.
tnek13
Well-Known Member
Never had a problem, but at present I only use it on handgun brass.
Cowboy Hunter
Well-Known Member
Would say the same I'll be dialing it back good to know on this article. I usually tumble for 2 1/2 hours. But 1hr is my going to be my norm now!
Well I have used BRASS pins for 10 plus years on nickel plated as well as brass 300 WSM cases. Used Lemishine, Dawn and covered the cases with about ½" of water. Now I use Cream of Tarter instead of Lemishine when I can find it. I've used Federal Nickel plated, Winchester Nickel plated and brass, Norma brass, Nosler Brass and one other I can't seem to recall. After 10 plus reloads on the Nickel plated brass I can now see where the nickel is wearing off, or should I say fading off. I use to clean and tumble my cases after every firing. Found that it did not improve or hurt accuracy, precision, case life, or anything else. No advantages or changes to ES, SD or velocity. I even left it running for 24 hours by mistake one day. No peening no nothing except shinny cases. Last I checked my shinny cases really never helped my reloads. Might look nice, but no benefit. IMHO. Have not tumbled any case for the 300 WSM in over 5 reloads.
Now for my .45 ACP that I use a Dillon 650 for, I have been tumbling the 45 cases. I sometimes get range brass from others commingled and I think, but not sure as of yet, it might seem to help the Dillon run better. I'm even beginning to question that from the smoothness of operation.
I do anneal my 300 WSM and all other rifle cases after every firing, which extends case life. It also has improved my consistency with velocity, accuracy and precision. I use maximum loads and I have close to 1,500 or more rounds down my Savage 12 BVSS and it's original factory barrel. I clean the primer pockets, but not to the point of see myself reflection, just get the residue out.
To me, IMHO, all the brew ha ha about tumbling and excessive cleaning of cases is a waste of time for what I do. The benefits are not there for me. I guess after almost 50 years of reloading I must not be learning a dang thing. Oh well, back to learning to read the wind.
Now for my .45 ACP that I use a Dillon 650 for, I have been tumbling the 45 cases. I sometimes get range brass from others commingled and I think, but not sure as of yet, it might seem to help the Dillon run better. I'm even beginning to question that from the smoothness of operation.
I do anneal my 300 WSM and all other rifle cases after every firing, which extends case life. It also has improved my consistency with velocity, accuracy and precision. I use maximum loads and I have close to 1,500 or more rounds down my Savage 12 BVSS and it's original factory barrel. I clean the primer pockets, but not to the point of see myself reflection, just get the residue out.
To me, IMHO, all the brew ha ha about tumbling and excessive cleaning of cases is a waste of time for what I do. The benefits are not there for me. I guess after almost 50 years of reloading I must not be learning a dang thing. Oh well, back to learning to read the wind.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
My Procedure.
After wet tumbling in steel pin media and using a media separator I tap each case gently against my plastic tray which releases any pins that are still inside the case itself,
Next I examine each case for any trapped media and use an air compressor on a very low setting with a nozzle extension on an air gun to blow dry the inside of the case. Just a quick blast will remove any trapped moisture. ( Of course if I find any trapped media I remove it first before I blow dry the case ID ).
Once all my brass has been examined and blow dried it is placed into a case dryer @ 104 degree's for 45 minutes to insure a through removal of all moisture..
Trim to a uniform case length, and finally neck turn ( only on new or once fired brass) my case necks a minimum of -.0002"- -.0004" depending on the amount of runout using a Sinclair expander die with the correct turning tool mandrel which will insure a good fit as well as true up any TIR readings on my case necks and neck turn using my power turning tool.
Champher the case necks O.D. & I.D. and load as well as examine the primer pockets themselves. If any is found the use of my case express tool will may short work of that issue Additionally on new or once fired brass I will deburr the inside of the primer flash hole..
Then I F.L. resize using a match grade die set with a bushing that is -.002" smaller then my case neck with a seated bullet.
Now I bump back my shoulder a minimum of - .002" or more if required using my Redding Body Die and Redding Competition Shell Holder Set.
Thus the brass neck tension as well as the correct bump has been established for only a particular rifle.
May seem like a lot of work but it goes very quickly (except for the tumbling and case drying) and my cases are clean and free of water spots.
It really depends on what you are trying to achieve and I subscribe to the the circle, within a circle within a circle theory.
There are others that do not !.
This method works for me as the dry tumbling leads to dust which can be ingested and prove hazardous to your health.
The only safe way that I've found is to dry tumble outdoors Even then you must clean out your primer pockets as well as case mouths from dry tumbling media.
In that light I find that with reasonable care I myself prefer the wet tumbling in steel pin media over the dry tumbling method.
But to each his own. I only know that this method works for me.
I know that this procedure has helped me in achieving lower E.S and S.D. numbers on . 5.56mm, 6.5 Creedmoor .270 Winchester, .308 ., and .300 Winchester Magnum calibers.as this is what I currently have been loading for.
As always my Magneto-Speed V-3 Chronograph is my best friend!
After wet tumbling in steel pin media and using a media separator I tap each case gently against my plastic tray which releases any pins that are still inside the case itself,
Next I examine each case for any trapped media and use an air compressor on a very low setting with a nozzle extension on an air gun to blow dry the inside of the case. Just a quick blast will remove any trapped moisture. ( Of course if I find any trapped media I remove it first before I blow dry the case ID ).
Once all my brass has been examined and blow dried it is placed into a case dryer @ 104 degree's for 45 minutes to insure a through removal of all moisture..
Trim to a uniform case length, and finally neck turn ( only on new or once fired brass) my case necks a minimum of -.0002"- -.0004" depending on the amount of runout using a Sinclair expander die with the correct turning tool mandrel which will insure a good fit as well as true up any TIR readings on my case necks and neck turn using my power turning tool.
Champher the case necks O.D. & I.D. and load as well as examine the primer pockets themselves. If any is found the use of my case express tool will may short work of that issue Additionally on new or once fired brass I will deburr the inside of the primer flash hole..
Then I F.L. resize using a match grade die set with a bushing that is -.002" smaller then my case neck with a seated bullet.
Now I bump back my shoulder a minimum of - .002" or more if required using my Redding Body Die and Redding Competition Shell Holder Set.
Thus the brass neck tension as well as the correct bump has been established for only a particular rifle.
May seem like a lot of work but it goes very quickly (except for the tumbling and case drying) and my cases are clean and free of water spots.
It really depends on what you are trying to achieve and I subscribe to the the circle, within a circle within a circle theory.
There are others that do not !.
This method works for me as the dry tumbling leads to dust which can be ingested and prove hazardous to your health.
The only safe way that I've found is to dry tumble outdoors Even then you must clean out your primer pockets as well as case mouths from dry tumbling media.
In that light I find that with reasonable care I myself prefer the wet tumbling in steel pin media over the dry tumbling method.
But to each his own. I only know that this method works for me.
I know that this procedure has helped me in achieving lower E.S and S.D. numbers on . 5.56mm, 6.5 Creedmoor .270 Winchester, .308 ., and .300 Winchester Magnum calibers.as this is what I currently have been loading for.
As always my Magneto-Speed V-3 Chronograph is my best friend!
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SteelBanger
Well-Known Member
I'll add that wet tumbling with SS pins is a major PITA if you don't have a proper media separator. I did it for years as others have described here - rinsed the cases and then dump them on a towel and shake them around good, let them dry (I usually use the oven), then back on a towel to shake around some more before dumping them individually and inspecting the flash holes. It was so involved that every time I did it I swore I was going back to dry tumbling but I guess I'm a sucker for shiny cases because I keep wet tumbling.
This past Christmas my brother-in-law got me the frankford media separator and that thing has changed my life ... if you don't have one yet, get it.
This past Christmas my brother-in-law got me the frankford media separator and that thing has changed my life ... if you don't have one yet, get it.
boattail match
Member
Maybe 15 years ago, I bought a slightly used Thumler's Mod B w/ fast motor, for $100 and being the beaucoup cheap Charlie that I was, bought $5 of the two thinnest sizes of brass rods at the local welding supply and cut them into lengths which wouldn't get wedged into my widest- mouth pistol brass.
I've never had an issue and tumbling more than maybe 20 minutes is wasting pennies for excess electricity.
The smallest rods even slip through the flash hole.
Now that I've saved all that money, I'm trying to remember what primers look like.
Ps Too much Lemi- Shine and/or Cream of Tartar is not a good thing and will render your brass pink, as it leaches some of the zinc from the brass surface. I use just a couple of drops of Dawn and a tiny amount of mentioned chemicals in just enough water to cover the brass.
Make yourself a homemade pin separator from one of the simple ideas on YouTube, dry the cases in the Sun in Summer, or near the fire during Winter and you're good to go.
I still have uncut rods from initial purchase, since I learned that those little pins have legs and need corralled.
I've never had an issue and tumbling more than maybe 20 minutes is wasting pennies for excess electricity.
The smallest rods even slip through the flash hole.
Now that I've saved all that money, I'm trying to remember what primers look like.
Ps Too much Lemi- Shine and/or Cream of Tartar is not a good thing and will render your brass pink, as it leaches some of the zinc from the brass surface. I use just a couple of drops of Dawn and a tiny amount of mentioned chemicals in just enough water to cover the brass.
Make yourself a homemade pin separator from one of the simple ideas on YouTube, dry the cases in the Sun in Summer, or near the fire during Winter and you're good to go.
I still have uncut rods from initial purchase, since I learned that those little pins have legs and need corralled.
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Ga6570
Well-Known Member
I've been using the SS wet tumble method for 10 years. I've never had a problem with it.
Tumbling in SS with water and dish soap and a little lemi-shine will not change the metalergy of the brass.
The amount of liquid and other contents should fill the container about 95-97 percent of containers capacity.
I have one of the early model thumblers tumblers. It has a very large capacity. Has been a great tool.
i clean them each firing as I don't like the idea of putting dirty cartridges in my chamber. But that's but a personal preference.
back to OPs original question, - if the person tumbling the brass "didn't know it would do that" I'd say the process they are using is suspect, or amateur. But the brass itself is likely fine as far as the metal goes. I'd go ahead and size them and go on with the loading process.
Tumbling in SS with water and dish soap and a little lemi-shine will not change the metalergy of the brass.
The amount of liquid and other contents should fill the container about 95-97 percent of containers capacity.
I have one of the early model thumblers tumblers. It has a very large capacity. Has been a great tool.
i clean them each firing as I don't like the idea of putting dirty cartridges in my chamber. But that's but a personal preference.
back to OPs original question, - if the person tumbling the brass "didn't know it would do that" I'd say the process they are using is suspect, or amateur. But the brass itself is likely fine as far as the metal goes. I'd go ahead and size them and go on with the loading process.
I have tumble thousands for 3 hours and never saw any of the above issues, except a couple pins caught in the neck. I inspect each and every piece thorughly and have realized I never had to tumble that long anymore.
