Bullet comparator needed?

[AZShooter]

I will never forget the first time I measured the base to tip measurement on my loaded rounds. I couldn't figure out why they were different. I also tried to adjust the die for each round. The effort actually changed distance of ogive to lands in a random manner making things worse.

The measurement of the tip to base is only useful for making a loaded round fit a magazine. It is the relationship of ogive and how far it is to the rifling/lands that matters. It is one of those things folks new to handloading eventually figure out.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I will never forget the first time I measured the base to tip measurement on my loaded rounds. I couldn't figure out why they were different. I also tried to adjust the die for each round. The effort actually changed distance of ogive to lands in a random manner making things worse.

The measurement of the tip to base is only useful for making a loaded round fit a magazine. It is the relationship of ogive and how far it is to the rifling/lands that matters. It is one of those things folks new to handloading eventually figure out.

Yeah that is what I am finding...I have a comparator on the way, and will start using that to measure overall length. I think my RCBS dies load off the tip and not anywhere on the bullet itself...let alone the ogive.

 

[AZShooter]

Take the RCBS die apart and place the bullet seater cup against the bullet. If the tip hits in the end of the cup use a small twist drill and cordless drill to bore into the center of the cup to create clearance for the bullet tip. A small drill to start, if tip still hits go a bit larger. You shouldn't have to use so large that it would hit the entrance of the seater cup. I do it all the time. You could also polish up the entrance/edge of the cup with some fine 400 gr wet/dry sandpaper with a bit of oil. Chuck up seater stem in your hand drill and do it on the highest speed possible. Degrease and put to use!

 

[Bigeclipse]

Take the RCBS die apart and place the bullet seater cup against the bullet. If the tip hits in the end of the cup use a small twist drill and cordless drill to bore into the center of the cup to create clearance for the bullet tip. A small drill to start, if tip still hits go a bit larger. You shouldn't have to use so large that it would hit the entrance of the seater cup. I do it all the time. You could also polish up the entrance/edge of the cup with some fine 400 gr wet/dry sandpaper with a bit of oil. Chuck up seater stem in your hand drill and do it on the highest speed possible. Degrease and put to use!

How would I tell if the tip is hitting the end?

 

[AZShooter]

It would rock in the seater cup, wouldn't fit flush all the way around the opening.

 

[Bigeclipse]

It would rock in the seater cup, wouldn't fit flush all the way around the opening.

thanks...I will check it tonight

 

[MudRunner2005]

I will never forget the first time I measured the base to tip measurement on my loaded rounds. I couldn't figure out why they were different. I also tried to adjust the die for each round. The effort actually changed distance of ogive to lands in a random manner making things worse.

The measurement of the tip to base is only useful for making a loaded round fit a magazine. It is the relationship of ogive and how far it is to the rifling/lands that matters. It is one of those things folks new to handloading eventually figure out.

Yep, me too. I went through all that adjusting every round crap.... HEADACHE!

Then I learned about how bullets vary and how important a consitant base-to-ogive is, compared to how consistant the OAL of the cartridge is. My groups instantly got better.

The Hornady comparator tool works great. It's what I use.

Also, a good pair of calipers is worth its weight in gold. I use a set of Starrett 799 calipers. Mitutoyo are also excellent calipers, too.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Yep, me too. I went through all that adjusting every round crap.... HEADACHE!

Then I learned about how bullets vary and how important a consitant base-to-ogive is, compared to how consistant the OAL of the cartridge is. My groups instantly got better.

The Hornady comparator tool works great. It's what I use.

Also, a good pair of calipers is worth its weight in gold. I use a set of Starrett 799 calipers. Mitutoyo are also excellent calipers, too.

I bought my calipers for 30 bucks at hardbor freight...so they are cheap, but they seem very consistant.... i.e. I measure a loaded cartridge today...I can then measure that same cartridge next week and the caliper gives me the same reading, whether it is a TRUE reading i.e. if it reads 3.145 is it really 3.145 inches...maybe not BUT I feel confident that if it says 3 different rounds are 3.145 then they all are the same length... maybe not true 3.145 inches, but none the less they will be the same length which is most important for accuracy. When I can afford 200 dollar calipers, I will invest in them.

 

[FearNoWind]

... whether it is a TRUE reading...maybe not BUT I feel confident that if it says 3 different rounds are 3.145 then they all are the same length.

The key is to use the same caliper when measuring CBTO to the lands with the dummy bullet in the chamber and the CBTO length when using the comparator.
One caliper may give you a different figure but if you use the same calliper for all work you at least have a basis for comparison. Beats a Ouija board every time.

 

[Bigeclipse]

It would rock in the seater cup, wouldn't fit flush all the way around the opening.

Took it apart...it does rock a little so may have to drill...looks like it may be difficult as the part I would be drill is pretty small lol

 

[AZShooter]

The seater stem has a right hand thread. Screw it into the die from the top. Drill also turns clockwise so seater stem won't loosen. Drill away.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Hey BigE, I've got 3 different sets of calipers from your harbor freight to a mid range, to a dial. All three give me the same reading exactly everytime as long as I zero them out, so I'm not sure I'll be spending money on an expensive set again, down the road. I do just leave my comparator on a single caliper, not because I'm worried about different measurement readings, but just ease of use mostly. I have both Hornady and sinclair comparators but I don't mix and match... And find that I just use the hornady pretty much exclusively. I've also found that measuring off the ogive provides the best results for me with consistency from round to round, although with the 250 batch of berger vld hunting bullets I purchased, i have found that there are still slight variances in length and weight when sampling the entire batch. It doesn't seem to have too significant effect on accuracy as I don't feel that I have to shoot bug holes to be satisfied with my results. 1/2 moa is sufficient to keep me smiling... and 3/4 moa will put a grin on my face also. My smile tends to be inversely related to my group size, but my happiness is not dependent on it. Any day out shooting is a good day.

The idea of drilling out your seater seems like a great one... I do think you'll find the comparator helps and is an excellent investment.

Shoot some pics when you hit the range and get a workup you are happy about. Would love to see em.

 

[kcebcj]

Took it apart...it does rock a little so may have to drill...looks like it may be difficult as the part I would be drill is pretty small lol

RCBS has a Custom Shop where you can get custom seater plugs.

Here is the letter I received from them. I ordered two plugs for the 215gr Berger. Had them in about 4 weeks. Very satisfied.

CUSTOM SEATER PLUGS

RCBS realizes that one plug can not be made to fit all the different profile of bullets available. For this reason, the Special Order shop will custom build a plug to fit the profile of the bullet you wish to use.

RCBS will require 3 sample bullets, the diameter of the seater stem in the die you are having the plug made for and the caliber. RCBS makes seater plugs in 1/4x 28 and 1/2x 20. Without this information, the Custom Shop can not start the plug, which will delay the order. The cost for the custom plug is $16.95 plus $4.50 s/h and applicable sales tax.

Please include your name, address, and telephone number. Also, include a MasterCard, Visa or American Express, with the expiration date and security code on the back of the card. You can send in a check or money order if you prefer but please do not send cash. Send the sample bullets to: RCBS, 605 Oro Dam Blvd E., Oroville, CA 95965. The process will take approximately 2 to 4 weeks to complete.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Hey BigE, I've got 3 different sets of calipers from your harbor freight to a mid range, to a dial. All three give me the same reading exactly everytime as long as I zero them out, so I'm not sure I'll be spending money on an expensive set again, down the road. I do just leave my comparator on a single caliper, not because I'm worried about different measurement readings, but just ease of use mostly. I have both Hornady and sinclair comparators but I don't mix and match... And find that I just use the hornady pretty much exclusively. I've also found that measuring off the ogive provides the best results for me with consistency from round to round, although with the 250 batch of berger vld hunting bullets I purchased, i have found that there are still slight variances in length and weight when sampling the entire batch. It doesn't seem to have too significant effect on accuracy as I don't feel that I have to shoot bug holes to be satisfied with my results. 1/2 moa is sufficient to keep me smiling... and 3/4 moa will put a grin on my face also. My smile tends to be inversely related to my group size, but my happiness is not dependent on it. Any day out shooting is a good day.

The idea of drilling out your seater seems like a great one... I do think you'll find the comparator helps and is an excellent investment.

Shoot some pics when you hit the range and get a workup you are happy about. Would love to see em.

Thanks for the info...I may pick about another set of calipers to keep the gauge on like you do...makes sense!

RCBS has a Custom Shop where you can get custom seater plugs.

Here is the letter I received from them. I ordered two plugs for the 215gr Berger. Had them in about 4 weeks. Very satisfied.

CUSTOM SEATER PLUGS

RCBS realizes that one plug can not be made to fit all the different profile of bullets available. For this reason, the Special Order shop will custom build a plug to fit the profile of the bullet you wish to use.

RCBS will require 3 sample bullets, the diameter of the seater stem in the die you are having the plug made for and the caliber. RCBS makes seater plugs in 1/4x 28 and 1/2x 20. Without this information, the Custom Shop can not start the plug, which will delay the order. The cost for the custom plug is $16.95 plus $4.50 s/h and applicable sales tax.

Please include your name, address, and telephone number. Also, include a MasterCard, Visa or American Express, with the expiration date and security code on the back of the card. You can send in a check or money order if you prefer but please do not send cash. Send the sample bullets to: RCBS, 605 Oro Dam Blvd E., Oroville, CA 95965. The process will take approximately 2 to 4 weeks to complete.

Thats actually pretty cheap...Ill give the drilling a shot and if it does not go well I will order the custom stem!

The seater stem has a right hand thread. Screw it into the die from the top. Drill also turns clockwise so seater stem won't loosen. Drill away.

Should I use a drill but that is just slightly wider than the plastic tip of the bullet? Basically just eough that the tip can slip through? It only looks olike I need to remove a very smal amount for it to contacting the die flush on the sides.