Bronzing steel?

[LoneTraveler]

Case hardening is just that, The adding of carbon to the outside of low carbon steel will allow a person to harden a thin layer of the outside of a piece of mild steel allowing it to take a wear film, but still not be hard or tempered clear through like High carbon steel. In playing around blacksmith shops in my youth I seen a lot of things used in casehardening, Harness leather or old leather belting was cut into shreds and packed in layers with bone meal or broken up bones around a part in a vessel to get some of the multi colored case hardening. Pottacium cyanide a deadly chemical will case harden with a even color. Years ago in repairing old original muzzle loader locks for a pharmacist friend, he gave me a baby food jar full to work on his guns and keep them original looking. It was in a white powder form, Heat part red hot, dip in the powder, it melted and coated the part. Reheat red hot and quench in oil or water and it gave a great hard skin on the part. There used to be a product called Case-Net or Case-Nit that was used for case hardening, We had it in a machine shop I once worked in. It was a heat red hot, dip, heat red hot again and quench without the poison danger.

 

[Packrat 6]

Howdy Lone Traveler.

You kind of got me interested so I looked up so old references. The original Casenit had cyanide slats in it and was poisonous to use. The same company came out with another product called Casenite which did not contain the Cyanide salts, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Anyway, the Casenite is probably what was being used in the machine shop.

Anyway, thanks for the input. You can never learn enough to know it all.

Packrat

 

[shorty]

Got a question, I was recently given an LC Smith double, Field grade, by a very dear old friend and hunting/fishing buddy. He inherited it from his Granddad. It is all original except for one pan head screw that holds the right hammer on. I't was lost back in the 40's. A few years ago at my friends request I had the hardware store-bought screw replaced, he wanted it fixed before he died. Unfortunately that pan head screw is blued, not CCH like the rest of the receiver, Ive asked a couple local smith's about doing CCH treatment, but their eye's roll back an they start foaming at the mouth. Question is do I live with it,or do any of you guy's have a source or a better idea?
I'm gathering materials to experiment with CCH,but not ready to tackle something on a classic shotgun,not even such a small part.

 

[Packrat 6]

Shorty,
Earlier in this thread, someone said there was a bronzing kit available from Brownell's or Midway or one of the other suppliers that the color can be varied by additional coats. You might want to look at that since a bronze screw head may be a lot less obvious that a Blued one. Another option, depending on the color of the CCH, is Steel FX on line. They have steel dyes that may come close to what you need. If using Steel FX, you may have to overcoat with a clear coat for wear and then after about a week of drying, touch sand very gently with 2000 or 2500 grit wet or dry to take off the shine.

NOW, this may not be the way a professional would do it, but I'm not a professional at CCH and only want to get a color match. In one case, re-did the entire receiver because There was no way to get it to match with the surface colorant rust damage it had. BUT and note I said BUT, I have never even attempted nor would, something that was a collector's item or classic. That is a job for a pro, not a "gifted" amateur!...LOL

Mostly what we get and refurbish for the Weapons for Warriors program is 1950's and 60's, rarely 70's and 80's mass produced single shot shotguns or 22's, etc. that have been sitting in a closet or under a bed for 50 years and just needs parts replaced, cleaned, sometimes rust removal and re-blued and the stock redone. Heck, even new, most of what we get donated to us sold originally for less than $100.00 and we usually get about $140 - $250 refurbished, (Inflation) but since all the labor is donated we have been able to turn over about $1600.00 this year to Wounded Warriors.

Maybe one of the professionals has a better idea, but like I said, am not a professional.

For what it is worth.

Packrat 6

 

[shorty]

Thanks Packrat! Will hit Brownells website shortly,Steel FX might just do the trick.Also wanted to commend you for your work with Wounded Warriors, A worthy cause if ever there was one! I'll rummage around and see if I can find something you can use. Thanks again, Shorty

 

[shortgrass]

Shorty, that screw probably can't be CCH in the original way. If it was bought new, from the hardware store, it's made of modern steel which has probably had some alloy/mineral added. Screws aren't made of low carbon steel today. If its not a straight, basic low carbon steel, It my harden but it won't color. Matching color, on CCH, using the original process ain't going to happen! The colors are completely and totally ramdom. 1018 colors nicely as does 8620 when modern steels are spoken of. That scew is probably made of neither. You can get some "color" by simply polishing the screw (head) to a high luster (400-600g) and wiping a thing coat of Rig un Grease on it and gentally waving an oxy/act flame through a 00 or 000 gas welding tip with a slightly carburizing flame (adjust torch to a neutral flame, then add a touch of act for a carburizing flame). What you get may not match what you've got.

 

[Packrat 6]

Shorty,
Rather than send me anything, why don't you get together with other people of like minds and crate your own "Weapons for Warriors" program locally? We are not an official organization of the Wounded Warriors, just a bunch of gun nuts, mostly retired that like to get together and work on old weapons.

I started this by running an ad in the Thrifty Nickel, or Dandy dime or one of them a couple of years back in the Firearms section, asking for donated weapons that people didn't want and explaining that they would be restored and sold to support Wounded Warriors. We got about 13- 15 old weapons, mainly the single shot Closet Queens and a 1903 Springfield nobody wanted and started getting together a couple hours a week to work on them, sit around, BS, sometimes drink a beer and tell lies to each other and it just kind of kept going. Advertisements on the bulletin boards of the VFW and American Legion were particularly productive. Also a lot of our volunteers are from the same places.

The one thing that did cause some friction when we started was that some of the volunteers wanted to buy some of the donated weapons so we finally settled on 3 other volunteers going online, or into one of the gun pricing books, checking gun prices , based on the condition, and then adding them together and dividing the price by 3 to set a fair market value that the volunteer could buy the weapon at that price if they so chose. Seems to have worked so far.

We had to formalize it somewhat since one of the donated weapons turned out to be stolen so we let the Police handle it. (The guy that donated it filled out the donation certificate transferring ownership, but it seems he had bought it from someone else a couple of years previously and had the receipt.) We have had to create or have created forms where the person donating gets the tax donation slip from Wounded Warriors, but I have all the forms and am willing to give copies to anyone interested. Also, if the weapon happens to be a High dollar collectible, we notify the person donating the weapon to see if maybe they want to keep it or sell it. (Classic example was a 1955 Winchester Model 12, 12 Ga. that had never been fired, that an old lady donated.) She still donated it! It was bought it at fair market value at a 100% condition.

I'm in the process of moving and don't know if the program will still keep going here after I move. So, until I can get it going again in Washington, am hesitant to do any more advertising. Also, gun laws here in Arizona are a little bit looser than other states, so will have to feel my way back into it when I get moved, but would like to see the program continue elsewhere.

Questions?...PM me.

Packrat

 

[shorty]

Thanks Shortgrass, Hadn't considered the composition of the steel but should have! Date stamp on receiver is 1883, reckon there's been a few changes since. Have made note of using slight carburizing flame,certainly worth a try!
In the meantime I'd found a source for some LC Smith parts so will give them a shot. In case anyone need's something for a classic gun ,especially LC Smith's call:
Jack's First Gunshop in Rapid City, SD. 605/343-9544
They are machinists that make many parts for classic gun's. In my case the screw they produce will not be CCH but with the hardening process perhaps will have some color,at least better than I have now. Thanks to Packrat and Shortgrass for passing along your knowledge!

 

[shortgrass]

Jack First is a good source, I've used them for several years. They've got quit a bit of 'off the wall' / hard to find parts. Another good one is Western Gun Parts. They're easily found on the web. Even though Western is in Canada obtaining parts from them isn't difficult. Both have a lot of parts that Numrich is out of or doesn't have.