broken fullsize stem...using neck sizer instead...

[Bill Johnson]

Ahhhh gotcha, so as far as safety goes it should be ok but I may be essentially taking one shot worth of life out of it due to excessive working.

True, but annealing will fix that.

So you have a standard neck die with expander....tracking now. Thanks.

So when you get a new expander for the full length die, I'm not sure how you set it up but most instructions specify so much decapping pin protrusion beneath the die then lock it down. You can improve neck concentricity and help prevent bending rods by leaving the decapping rod lock nut loose initially. Then, as you size a case, with the expander in the neck, then lock the nut down. HTH.

 

[AZShooter]

I quickly read the entire thread and don't think I saw anyone address one issue that will happen when you run the brass through your RCBS FL die without the expander ball.

The upper portion of the FL die where it sizes the neck is quite small. This is done so any brass, no matter how thin, will be have the neck diameter sized well past the normal diameter you would use for seating. The sizer ball then opens up the inside diameter to approximately .003" smaller than the bullet diameter. If you use the FL sizer without the ball the inside diameter will be somewhere around .005"-.008 smaller than bullet diameter. This is too much neck tension. It could cause the bullet to get distorted or even bend the necks inducing runout as you seat a bullet.

If you were to run this brass through your bushing die afterwards it wouldn't do anything because the necks would be smaller than the bushing.

The only time you could effectively use a FL die without a sizer ball is if you had a tight necked chamber that required neck turning. I mean a lot of neck turning! Then if you knew all the specs you could have a chamber made to use the die without the sizer ball. It is working backwards though.

I have a 30 BR with a tight necked chamber. I discovered that my RCBS FL die gives makes the necks .002" smaller than bullet diameter without the sizer ball. The necks are turned to .010".

RCBS is really good at sending replacement parts for their dies. Get a new sizer stem. If yours is an older version with a collet that holds the depriming pin be sure to tell them that. They usually will send the newer style ball and depriming pin with the rod. Unfortunately it sometimes takes some work to get through on the phone. 1-800-533-5000

 

[barefooter56]

AZShooter,
Page 1 4th post down. "Run the case neck over just the expander ball in the neck die after running the brass through the FL DIE". Just a suggestion to get Bigeclipse going till he can get a new decapping rod / expander ball assembly from RCBS. Also, the old style RCBS dies have a larger diameter decapping rod than the new style. Found that out the hard way........

 

[AZShooter]

So much for speed reading, Barefooter56. Thanks for the clarification.

I would be interested in hearing if running the sizer ball in the reverse direction would induce runout. I would bet it would if the shoulder angle is 30 degrees or over.

To OP: you might be able to find another stem and ball on another die set if you has multiple sets of dies. I have done that when I bent a rod till I got a replacement. Or know anyone else you could borrow one from?

 

[barefooter56]

So much for speed reading, Barefooter56. Thanks for the clarification.

I would be interested in hearing if running the sizer ball in the reverse direction would induce runout. I would bet it would if the shoulder angle is 30 degrees or over.

To OP: you might be able to find another stem and ball on another die set if you has multiple sets of dies. I have done that when I bent a rod till I got a replacement. Or know anyone else you could borrow one from?

AZShooter,
No sweat . I plead guilty for doing that too! lol ! RE the reverse application of the expander ball with the neck die +1 !! See string on page 2 I believe. PS This is exactly why I use an RCBS Heavy Duty decapping die and take the decapping pins out of my sizing dies if I can when loading a rifle cartridge. Pistol on a progressive press.... only if I am reloading brass I have stripped and left the good primer in.

 

[LONGSHOOTER]

I would be interested in hearing if running the sizer ball in the reverse direction would induce runout. I would bet it would if the shoulder angle is 30 degrees or over.

The way you are doing it the neck sizer and case are in compression. Normally, the sizer and case are in tension, and this might be desirable for unsupported alignment.

Replace parts.

 

[barefooter56]

LONGSHOOTER,
Yes. But lets seen just exactly what happens in THIS case. It may give someone another thing to try if they are caught short like Bigeclipse. May be one more arrow to use against Mr. Murphy.

 

[Bigeclipse]

LONGSHOOTER,
Yes. But lets seen just exactly what happens in THIS case. It may give someone another thing to try if they are caught short like Bigeclipse. May be one more arrow to use against Mr. Murphy.

Ok well I have sized about 10 pieces of brass in the rcbs FL die without expander ball. I then ran them through the LEE neck sizer die with expanderball. It was hard"ish" to run them through the LEE neck sizer die as one would expect since like you said...the rcbs die would have pushed the necks tighter than a standard expander ball...but it was not really hard. I simply lubed the case necks a little and there was no issue at all. I'm kind of thinking this process is similar to resizing brass to change calibers for example if you wanted to size 7mm08 brass from 260 brass... only not as drastic as that. The brass looks fine to my eyes. I will be loading some loads this weekend and I will report back if there are any issues with excessive runout...etc.

 

[barefooter56]

Ok well I have sized about 10 pieces of brass in the rcbs FL die without expander ball. I then ran them through the LEE neck sizer die with expanderball. It was hard"ish" to run them through the LEE neck sizer die as one would expect since like you said...the rcbs die would have pushed the necks tighter than a standard expander ball...but it was not really hard. I simply lubed the case necks a little and there was no issue at all. I'm kind of thinking this process is similar to resizing brass to change calibers for example if you wanted to size 7mm08 brass from 260 brass... only not as drastic as that. The brass looks fine to my eyes. I will be loading some loads this weekend and I will report back if there are any issues with excessive runout...etc.

Bigeclipse,
Glad it worked. It is kind of like necking a cartridge up isn't it? Cant wait to hear what it did to the concentricity (if anything) and how they shoot.

 

[AZShooter]

Phil,

I agree it is better to run the sizer ball in reverse and have something to shoot than sitting around waiting for a part.

Using a tapered sizer ball to open up a neck as in the situation of making 358 win from 308 brass or 375 Taylor from 338 win mag brass is similar EXCEPT the brass is then run up into the FL die and PULLED back over the sizer ball a second time.

Bigeclipse,

Did you put some lube on the inside of the necks when you ran the necks upwards over the sizer ball? I would imagine that helped if that is what you explained. Also being sure you have a chamfer on the entrance to the neck will also help.

We await your results.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Phil,

I agree it is better to run the sizer ball in reverse and have something to shoot than sitting around waiting for a part.

Using a tapered sizer ball to open up a neck as in the situation of making 358 win from 308 brass or 375 Taylor from 338 win mag brass is similar EXCEPT the brass is then run up into the FL die and PULLED back over the sizer ball a second time.

Bigeclipse,

Did you put some lube on the inside of the necks when you ran the necks upwards over the sizer ball? I would imagine that helped if that is what you explained. Also being sure you have a chamfer on the entrance to the neck will also help.

We await your results.

Yes I used a little lube on the inside. I did not think to chamfer them though. I will report back after this weekend.