Brand new Bergera 300 win mag not shooting accurately

[Korhil78]

You have to eliminate one problem at a time. Next would be the rings.

 

[Les in Wyoming]

Are your group's horizontal or vertical? Something else, since you have verified action torque settings, I assume you verified scope ring torque settings, since you are getting extreme spread, let's look at the loads. With a fired case, prior to sizing can you slip your bullet into the neck all the way or do you hit a wall at the neck/shoulder area? If so, you have donuts causing havic, if no, then look at the powder measure, are you using a balance beam or digital scale? If digital scale can you verify with a balance beam scale? If those two things check out fine, then I would do a seating depth test, try loading three per seating depth at the lowest powder charge. I would do the Berger method they have listed, out of those seating depth's, you should find one or two that will group consistently. Once you find that, next would be checking min to max powder charge, I would do it at .5 grain intervals. This should give you at least two that will give you good group's, at that point, you should be able to fine tune the load. Good luck, the above has always worked out well for me with Magnum cartridges.

My groups are mostly triangles. I have gotten vertical groups in all my testing. One common pattern is two touching and a third an inch away. But others are splayed out horizontally. Sometimes, loads that were slightly sub-moa when testing are 2" or more another day.

I checked the case as you said. The bullets fall into the case necks without problem. I am double-weighing the powder with each load. I have a Lyman digital powder measure. But when I put the load on my Hornady digital scale, it weighs differently. The difference in what one says to the other can be as much as a whole grain or as little as a couple of tenths. I expect the little Hornady scale to be the accurate one.You have got me thinking about verifying this. I might still have an old balance beam somewhere. I know that the Hornady scale is consistent if you dump the charge in a casing and then dump it back on the scale. Seems like it is accurate.

As for seating depth, I found that .015 jump seemed to do more consistently. But I experimented with going up .003. When it got to .020, it started to get consistent again. It was also consistent at .023 and .026. So I seat them for a .021 jump. I really appreciate these questions. I need to solve this.

Below are some of my groups at 100 yards. The top two are the best loads. They are all 3 shot groups. I am using H1000 with Hornady 208 gr ELD-M bullets. The first pic is 77.2 grains. The second pic is 77.5 grains. It has two in one hole but the third is off. Both seem to shoot the same. 2 touching and one off. The third group is 77.8 grains. it is a little more spread out but other experiments with this same load were more like the first 2. The fourth pic is 76 grains, which I thought would be my load. When I first developed it, it was shooting at about 1" or a little under. Now it is 2.3"

I also experimented with these hotter loads using regular primers (Winchester). The groups were more spread out. Please someone tell me what I need to do here. Thanks

 

[Les in Wyoming]

Put it on another rifle that you know shoots well and shoot it.

IN looking at these groups with different loads, does it seem like the scope could be the issue? The groups change also with seating depth.

 

[swe123]

Whatever the problem is, changing loads isn't going to fix it. Pick a load or factory if you are questioning your reloading process. Then go to looking at other possibilities.

 

[Ki4vgf]

My groups are mostly triangles. I have gotten vertical groups in all my testing. One common pattern is two touching and a third an inch away. But others are splayed out horizontally. Sometimes, loads that were slightly sub-moa when testing are 2" or more another day.

I checked the case as you said. The bullets fall into the case necks without problem. I am double-weighing the powder with each load. I have a Lyman digital powder measure. But when I put the load on my Hornady digital scale, it weighs differently. The difference in what one says to the other can be as much as a whole grain or as little as a couple of tenths. I expect the little Hornady scale to be the accurate one.You have got me thinking about verifying this. I might still have an old balance beam somewhere. I know that the Hornady scale is consistent if you dump the charge in a casing and then dump it back on the scale. Seems like it is accurate.

As for seating depth, I found that .015 jump seemed to do more consistently. But I experimented with going up .003. When it got to .020, it started to get consistent again. It was also consistent at .023 and .026. So I seat them for a .021 jump. I really appreciate these questions. I need to solve this.

Below are some of my groups at 100 yards. The top two are the best loads. They are all 3 shot groups. I am using H1000 with Hornady 208 gr ELD-M bullets. The first pic is 77.2 grains. The second pic is 77.5 grains. It has two in one hole but the third is off. Both seem to shoot the same. 2 touching and one off. The third group is 77.8 grains. it is a little more spread out but other experiments with this same load were more like the first 2. The fourth pic is 76 grains, which I thought would be my load. When I first developed it, it was shooting at about 1" or a little under. Now it is 2.3"

I also experimented with these hotter loads using regular primers (Winchester). The groups were more spread out. Please someone tell me what I need to do here. Thanks

Greetings. I am new to this forum. It was recommended to me, that I might find some answers here. This is my first 300 win mag. It has been a long time coming, waiting and saving. It was a big day to bring it home. Bought two different kinds of federal ammo (it is all they had). Best group was about 3" at 100. Most were worse. I was very VERY put out. From everything I heard, these were tack drivers. I am using a vortex viper 6.5 x 20 scope. I used the spent brass and tried several loads. I am shooting 180 Gr. Hornady bullets. Tried 76 gr RL22 with 215 Magnum primers. That brought it down to a 2" group. Totally unacceptable. (I bought a sub-moa rifle, not a slug gun.). I use IMR 4350 for 30-06. I have tried several loads with it from 70 grains to 74.5 (WAY too hot!). I got a couple groups that were sort of OK. One was a 2" vertical group, exactly in line with each successive shot going lower. Anyway, I am very frustrated with this. I love everything about this rifle and set up except its apparent lack of accuracy - which everyone raves about in these rifles. Is there an over-the-counter load that I can try that will at least give me a consistent basis to say the rifle is OK? I am very grateful for some load data. The RL22 load I used seems to be common with others, but a 2" triangle at 100 yards is not my idea of accuracy. Many thanks for any help you can give. Les

Mr.Les,I also purchased a bargara in early June of this year an I was like you.ive also seen good reviews an picked up b-14 terrain wilderness in 300 win mag an during break in it was shooting so so with a clean barrel each shot until I was firing 3 shots groups an the bolt was sticking with blue box federal 180 gr ammo.an was able to get it to the factory the next day an their finding was the bore of the muzzle break was too small an was returned with a test target which I search the web to find some an all was on back order .an in several weeks I have fired alittle over 300 rounds with any group under 2 inches at 100 yd. Which I did have an old 15.00 muzzle break I had laying around that I got from Ebay which did improve my groups an also toque stock to 55 inch pounds an scope was torque an swap scope with a rifle that groups well.an I just noticed this last week an inspection with the barrel action removed I notice rub Mark's on the pillows.so out of the wild blue I glassed bed the recoil lug an tang an that so improved my groups with browning long range 195 gr.searra match king .its not a clover leaf group but they to touch .maybe that will help you brother

 

[Les in Wyoming]

Mr.Les,I also purchased a bargara in early June of this year an I was like you.ive also seen good reviews an picked up b-14 terrain wilderness in 300 win mag an during break in it was shooting so so with a clean barrel each shot until I was firing 3 shots groups an the bolt was sticking with blue box federal 180 gr ammo.an was able to get it to the factory the next day an their finding was the bore of the muzzle break was too small an was returned with a test target which I search the web to find some an all was on back order .an in several weeks I have fired alittle over 300 rounds with any group under 2 inches at 100 yd. Which I did have an old 15.00 muzzle break I had laying around that I got from Ebay which did improve my groups an also toque stock to 55 inch pounds an scope was torque an swap scope with a rifle that groups well.an I just noticed this last week an inspection with the barrel action removed I notice rub Mark's on the pillows.so out of the wild blue I glassed bed the recoil lug an tang an that so improved my groups with browning long range 195 gr.searra match king .its not a clover leaf group but they to touch .maybe that will help you brother

Thank you. Do these not come glass bedded? Does anyone know? If not, I need to have it done. Also, if the muzzle break is too small, the factory should send one. Is this a possibility for what I am dealing with? Would it hurt to have it reamed a little bigger?

 

[Kmccord]

On your targets, I see some horizontal stringing, I am going through that with my 6.5 Creed. Looking online tells you it comes down to trigger pull not consistent or seating depth not set for the barrel. Second thing, reading how you have two touching then a flyer, is the flyer the last shot? If so, two things come into mind, either the barrel is hot and is opening up your group or you are getting excited and not following through with the shot. Not sure how long you are waiting between shots, with a magnum burning that much powder, you need to let the barrel cool down some before firing. I leave the chamber open after each firing and let the barrel cool down a minimum of one minute before loading another round. If it was me, I would start over with a seating depth test, since this is a hunting rifle, I would do the Berger test I have pasted below. I purchased my grandson a Bergara B14 HMR in 7 mm Rem Mag, after break-in shots, I followed the test thinking it would lead to .020 from the lands, to my surprise, it came out as .050 was the ticket in the Barrel, and it worked consistently. I also talked to Berger and the tech mentioned using the lowest charge for the powder is how he starts the seating depth test. Once you find the seating depth, then work on powder charges at that seating. It is a process, but the end result is rewarding. Before doing all of this, you may want to test that scope on a different rifle that shoots good, just to rule that out before going into the load development.

VLD - Making it Shoot

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly

bergerbullets.com

 

[flyguy1]

IMHO you have fooled around enough; if you can't replace the scope (and my gunsmith, who is very experienced, sees more Vortex scopes go bad than other premium brands) call Bergara and send it to them. If they shoot it and its good, it's either scope or rings. If not, they'll fix/replace it. And no, you're likely not going to get 1/4 inch groups. Rare even among custom guns in 300WinMag. Only on the internet do factory rifles shoot bughole groups; some will, most won't.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Put another person behind the rifle, that a excellent shot. See how he or she does. I would look at what Kmcord stated up above. I have added his comments to a log, that I keep. If I ran into a problem like this.

 

[Quicksilver338]

You are running with this gun like a kid in a candy store. You also think you're too good to test things multiple people have told you to. Who cares if it's a new scope and who mounted it, it's a lower end vortex and chances are on a magnum rifle may not hold up as well. Heck it could be bad out of the box. As mentioned before, I have a fully custom rifle with carbon barrel. 300 Norma mag improved burning 91.8gr of powder. I shoot my best groups when I let the barrel cool with an air pump pushing air through the barrel for a minute or two. I've noticed more heat shift on non custom barrels, you need to keep things more consistent in your testing and start eliminating more variables. Not just chase another load. When was the last time you bore scoped the barrel? Just because you think you are cleaning your rifle doesn't mean it's clean. Case in point, my rifle was dialed in before hunting season. Hitting a 10" plate at 800yds in multiple range sessions in multiple environments. Missed a bear one day and went back to check my zero. It shifted and my groups opened up. I was watching my patches and not my borescope. I had bad carbon fouling in my bore and once cleaned shots 2/3/4 out the rifle gave me my usual 1/4moa group again. There's a lot to check and instead of just shooting more ammo down it, there's basic fundamentals you need to start eliminating and keep consistent between tests. My buddy has a b14 300prc that went from sub moa to 2-3moa groups and turns out his barrel copper fouled extremely quickly. Hopefully it smooths out with time but you wouldn't know how bad it was unless the barrel was scoped. Found some disturbing things in the barrel also but I'm hoping it can still be a shooter...I personally wouldn't own a bergara after the things I've seen. Maybe buy one and slap a custom barrel on it since the rest of the rifle is fairly nice.

 

[OG10]

May 3 2020, a post duplicating this one.The main difference this post has not gone 31 pages....The final outcome, I will save the suspence (drum roll please ) That op had a bad scope case closed.put a known good scope on it and try again, the other poster found out that new does not mean perfect, flawless, soorry for this blunt post just trying to help you stop chasing your tail.

 

[Les in Wyoming]

I took the rifle to my gunsmith. He has a means of checking if a scope is tracking with a grid that stick into the barrel. This will at least give an indication. He is going to bore-scope it and look for any fouling issues. He is also going to take the stock off and see if it will need bedding. I measured the front of the muzzle break. It measures .328. But I am going to remove it and see if it measures that all the way through. If not, will bore it out. (If any of you think .328 is enough or should be more, let me know please). Then I will put it back on with 15 lbs torque if I can find a means of measuring it. The gunsmith doesn't think it is the scope, but we will see. I have an unusual set of scope rings. I forget what they are called, but they tighten on both bottom and top. It is supposed to eliminate the need for lapping. (Though I have a scope-ring lap set). I thought to tighten the bottom screws which tighten on the base and found they could be tighter. But then I realized these also affect the tightness on the scope itself and are supposed to be set at 18 inch pounds. I backed them off and torqued them to 20 inch pounds. If I am able to shoot tomorrow, will find out if I have fixed the problem or now. The advice I have gotten here is worth a lot. I really appreciate this forum. Thanks much. Will

 

[Les in Wyoming]

The gunsmith tracked the scope and said it looked ok. The muzzle break had burs in it, which he reamed. He found copper fouling int he barrel. I am going to work it over more with copper-killer. I have been using Butch's Bore Shine, but it does not indicate copper issues (no blue patches.) However, the gunsmith ran some Sweets 7.62 through it and showed me blue patches. The gun shot horribly out of the box before it was copper fouled (with factory Federal ammo). So I am not sure how much this is the problem. He said it looks like it could use glass bedding. So I am going to do that also. One thing that irritates me is when people say "Those Bergara rifles are supposed to be very accurate." I think people just repeat something they have heard somewhere. Then along comes someone (like me) who believed all that is being said and buys the product. This gun only occasionally breaks under sub-moa, but not consistently and only barely. Another 3-shot group using the same meticulously worked load will print differently.

After reaming the muzzle break, cleaning and tracking the scope, I took it out and shot it. I shot a few fouling shots first from a different load. The top pic shows 4 shots vertically stringing. The last of the 5 shots was low left. All from a prone, sandbagged position using rear bags and a bipod, pre-loaded against another sandbag. I let the barrel cool and adjusted my zero which had changed. (I like it to be an 1-1/2 high at 100 yards). So the second group (same exact load) shot completely different. That one was a bit more like a triangle with two somewhat more vertical.

The load I am using here is 77.5 grains H1000 under a 208Gr Hornady ELD-M. Federal 215 primers. I have tried regular (WLR) primers, but it performs worse. My former load was 76 grains of the same configuration. The hotter load seemed to tighten groups a bit. Chrono quit working on me, but that load previously was getting 3004 fps avg. ES=19, SD=13 from a 3 shot group.

If any of you can analyze this or venture guesses, I am very appreciative for the help. I have wasted a lot of time and money downrange on this.

 

[Mike Matteson]

If you can get some fed. 210 primer try them. The other is I looked up different bullet manufactures on bullets. Speer builds a 190gr bullet, AccuBond builds at 200gr bullet and a LR 210gr bullet, and Sierra builds a 200gr bullet. I would suggest that you try some different bullets. A friend of mine and I used Fed 210 primers in a lot of our loads. They are plenty hot. I can't remember if you have used any other bullets or primers. Change of powders and bullets are inline to try and get a load that puts a good group together. Your powder load are at a compressed load. I will say that I haven't used H1000. I have used H4350 and H4831 powder a lot in my 308 Norma Mag and still do.