Boone & crocket

[marketello]

So adjusting the distance in which you sight in at, say from 200yds to 230yds will adjust the stadia marks to match up with the right distances??

Am I getting close, or drifting away?

 

[Brent]

Just a point of interest if you're considering either the B&C or Varmint reticle that Leupold offers is that you might be better off to choose the Varmint reticle that has spacing a bit closer together.

Wapiti13 said:
<font color="red"> Changing your power ring downward will raise the impact for each given distance.
</font>

What happens if you change the power setting downward is the POI will actually raise, as Wapiti13 said. The reason for this is that the reticle's tic spacing will actually increase relative to the target image with the a lower power setting and you will have effectively held higher on your target using the same tic mark for reference.

Point is, if you have a Varmint reticle and your cartridge/load doesn't shoot quite as flat as this reticle is calibrated for, you always have the ability to lower the power setting to steepen up the pre-calibrated trajectory curve to match a slower, less flat shooting load.

If you had the B&amp;C reticle, your load better not shoot any flatter than the reticle is calibrated for because the only way you'd match the two is to increase the power setting (which you can't do) or reduce the speed of the load (and that always sucks).

Like John, I still prefer the R2 reticle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Jon A]

[ QUOTE ]
you might be better off to choose the Varmint reticle that has spacing a bit closer together.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly why I chose it. The B&amp;C marks, even at max power were just too far appart to be of much use for my load. As it is, my load is just a hair too flat for the VHR, as technically I'll be about 1/2" low at 400 to be on at 300 &amp; 500 and the last line being on at about 620 instead of 600. But it's close enough I think I'll find it very useful out to at least 500. Close enough I couldn't justify spending the coin on a custom reticle from Premier (with all the lines and dots I wanted to add, the price added up to be significant) when I got this for next to nothing since I was buying a new scope anyway....

 

[marketello]

Would retical #43 be considered a varmit reticle? Zeiss Conquest reticals
Or would that be a mildot?

It looks like Leupold makes a varmit reticle that is just like their B&amp;C, but I guess the range lines are closer (hard to tell on the web-site)

Does Leupold put their varmit reticle in a 10X scope, or do you have to go up to a varmit high power scope. Haven't been able to find that info on the Leupold site yet.

 

[sscoyote]

Man Greenhorn, u're asking all the right questions for sure. You're the type that's gonna get it to work certainly beyond the manufacturers expectations. I just put the Varmint Hunter reticle into a 4.5-14X LR Leupy-- all on top of a custom Savage Striker .243 WSSM, and look forward to testing it soon.

My specialty handgun hunting partner and i have been investigating the ballistic reticles for quite some time now-- especially the Burris Ball. Plex reticle, as it's the only one commonly available for the 3-12X Burris LER. Recently we competed against the sniper types at the ITRC put on by Dave Lauck up in WY. Part of the comp was a roving silhouette course that required engaging 8" metal discs @ unknown ranges out to around 700 yds. or so. My partner took the long-range course (about 400 on out), and did a very impressive job of nailing most of the discs on each 1st shot attempt, keeping up fairly well with the "clickers" out to that range, even with the required interpolation between stadia marks. I've also been using the ball. reticles for LR hunting, for several years now with terrific results out to about 600 or so, with the handguns. Certainly beyond that clicks are needed as trajectory increases to the point where interpolation becomes much more difficult. Trying to get a ballistic reticle to zero perfectly in 50-100 yd. increments just ain't gonna happen, unless u're awful lucky, but it's often very close. As far as zeroing ballistic reticles, we've had the best success by applying Exbal Ballistics Calculator that has a ball. reticle zeroing option for any reticle imaginable, as well as rezeroing for magnification changes also. There are ways to recalculate reticle subtensions with magnification changes longhand, but it's time consuming relative to Exbal. Although it's not a perfect system, it seems to have been very close most of the time, if not dead on, and IMO is an important asset for long-range shooting-- kinda takes the guesswork out of the equation, and is much simpler/quicker to calculate downrange zeroing, clicks, windage, etc.-- www.perry-systems.com

 

[marketello]

Thanks for that.

To be honest, I kind of had my mind set on Leupold or Zeiss, and had not considered Buriss. What is the reputaion of Buriss scope's, are they considered up and comming, as good as Leupold without the reputation yet?
I know the Savorskeys have a hell of a reputation, but with a price tag to go with it. The old saying, "you get what you pay for" may be so, but this construction hump just can't justify that with the old lady.

Like I stated in previous posts, I no longer have the 1000 yd bug (for now), but rather think I would be happy with 500yd consistency. Trying to decide if I really need a tactical scope, or a varmit reticle that will allow me to be accurate up to 500yds.

500 yds for now, 1K down the road.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Dan McCarty]

A different approach, maybe. Last summer in WY while shooting with some board members, my face got really red and my day was less than enjoyable. At 800 yards, I dialed my .308, 700 VLS with a Leupold 6-18 up from the 100 yard zero and was off the dark spot on the rock by many feet. I have shot this rifle at 1000 yards using the same procedure and done okay. This time I must have lost track of the number of clicks dialed, however. The other folks were using custom 50BMG, 6mm AI, and 300WSM all with NF, R2 recticles and they did well without dialing much.

A few years ago I investigated dial the scope vs multiple aiming points on the scope approaches and went with the dial method for the reasons stated in other posts. Currently, my thinking is to merge the two approaches by using different rifles (calibers)with their scopes zeroed for different ranges. This gives me multiple aiming points and allows dialing but with few clicks required.

These rifles (factory) are used (primarily) on annual PD shooting trips. Other than costs, what other problems do you see with this approach? (I am not sure that costs is even a problem since you cannot have too many guns!)

 

[wapiti13]

Greenhorn,
The Burris 3X9X40 with a Ballisticplex would be your best dollar value. The scopes are made in US by Burris (who is now owned by Nikon I think). The Fullfield II scopes are your best bet for weight, eye adjustment, etc. Since you have gone back to a 500 yd max, the whole game has changed. Any decent Leupold, Burris, etc will work. Even the older models of Leupold (Vari X III) are great scopes and can be bought off EBay at good prices. Another concept you might consider is putting a MilDot reticle in an older Leupold for the value (look at the "MilDot topic in this area). You need to run a ballistic runout on your load and figure out your Maximum Point Blank Range (use a 6" standard). This will keep you at +or- 3" all the way out to your max MPBR. Then you'll know how much holdover you need out to say 600 yds. You can then paractice to gain confidence &amp; skills to advance someday. Most game is shot ay way under 500 yds in most hunting situations. If you are shooting farther than that it is by choice and design usually. The Burris 3X9X40 matte finish Ballisticplex sells for under $200.00 in most magazines and is ready to fly. This may be your best bet to gain experience. Send me your bullet &amp; velocity and I could run you an example which might make more sense.

 

[C Knappenberger]

I am new to the forum and long range shooting. I have a question regarding the "dial in" method of shooting. I have only used the hold over method while deer hunting but reading several of the articles in this forum, knowing the exact range and dialing it in is the most accurate way of hitting what you are aiming at. What is the best way to begin practicing at long range. Is it best to start your zero at 100 yds and use a bullet path chart for the given load that you have (new to reloading as well)? Or is it best to have your zero at 200 or 300 yards and go from there? If I am zeroed at 100 yds and let say my bullet drops 12 inches at 300 yards(just threw in a number), I adjust my target knobs according to how low I will be hitting at 300 yards, correct? So if I am 12 inches low at 300, I would need to lower my cross hair 48 clicks? I shoot a Savage 110FP in .25-06 with a Tasco World Class 4X16X50. I just bought the rifle wanting to extend my range and shooting capabilities. I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I appriciate any advice you have and I am happing to be part of this forum.

Knappy

 

[Guest]

Knappy, how far you sight in depends on what you're shooting. Caliber and animal. I know some guys that sight in at 500 yards.
I'll tell you this, there is no reason to sight in a rifle (except a lever action 30-30 or something like that for close range brush hunting) at 100 yards. I keep my 7 STW sighted in at 200 yards and I'm only 1.2" high at 100. I'd like to sight it in at 300 because I would still only be about 4" high maximum inside 300 yards.

As far as dialing in, the ballistic programs such as exbal work great. But there is no substitute for dialing in at practice ranges and keeping good notes. I like to dial in elevation but I never dial in windage inside of 500 yards I hold left or right. I also do not hunt game past 500 yards (self imposed limit) or shoot at that distance with more than a 10 mph wind. I limit myself to 300 yards in a stiff wind.

These are my personal preferences, everyone is different.

As far as your question about 48 clicks for a 12" drop at 300 yards. You are way way way off, you need about 2 clicks maybe .5 moa not 12 moa. Get a balistics program and run it for your rifle and load. It should get you going and you will be close enough on paper. Then get to the range and find out what it will do in the real world.

Good luck and welcome to Long Range Hunting a habit more expensive and addictive than any drug on the street!

 

[C Knappenberger]

Thank you Johnny for the help. I have my rifle right know, 3.5 inches high at 100 yds. According to the chart I am going off of (Sierra), I should be zeroed at 300 yds. My problem is, I haven't actually shot at 300+ yet. Can you explain how the clicks work out at further ranges beyond 100 yards. I believe I have it down pat at 100 yds, but what am I getting wrong out past that? I know that at 100 yds, 1 click equals 1/4 in. How does it work say at 300 or 500 yds? Sorry, this must seem real basic for everyone, but I have something wrong in my thinking. Thanks once again for your help.

Knappy

 

[Glock119]

Knappy,
Think of it this way. (if your scope clicks = 1/4" per click)
at 100 yds 1 click = 1/4" and 2 clicks = 1/2".
at 200 yds that same 1 click now equals 1/2" and the 2 clicks = 1"
at 300 yds that same 1 click now equals 3/4" and the 2 clicks = 1 1/2"
at 400 yds that same 1 click now equals 1" and the 2 clicks = 2"
and so on.

also different scopes have different values.

and just remember 4 clicks = 1 MOA not 1" (except for at 100 yds)4 clicks = 1 MOA and 1" in this example

on some of the better scopes (most tactical models) the turrets will be marked a little better than others. for example some of them will have big slash followed by 3 little marks and a big slash (labeled 1) then 3 little ones and a big slash (labeled 2) and so on. the big slash = 1 MOA and each of the little marks =1/4 MOA then all you have to do is go to the range sight in and set turret to zero. then if you have made a range card that tells you how much your bullet will drop in MOA (Minute of Angle) all you have to do is dial it in.

Something like this around turret:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
liiiliiiliiiliiiliiiliiiliiiliiiliiil
the spacing is not correct but you get the idea(i hope)

Example: (and i do mean example) 308 win 165 grain bullet you zero at 100yds. your range card says your bullet will drop
2.0" at 200 yds = 1MOA or 2"......turn turret to #1 take shot
4.9" at 300 yds = 1.5MOA or 4.5"......turn turret to #1 plus 2 little marks take shot
8.3" at 400 yds = 2MOA or 8"......turn turret to #2 take shot
12.2" at 500 yds = 2.5MOA or 12.5"......turn turret to #2 plus 2 little marks take shot
16.6" at 600 yds = 2.75MOA or 16.5"......turn turret to #2 plus 3 little marks take shot

.25 moa = 1 little mark,
.5 moa = 2 little marks,
.75 moa = 3 little marks

so all you have to do is now dial your turret to the # 2 plus two small marks at 500 yds. 2 plus two small marks = 2.5MOA at 500yds or in other words 12.5". Your range card said your bullet would drop 12.2" so as you can see with 2.5 MOA which equals 12.5" your only shooting about a 1/4" high based on this example.This will put you dead on the target with no hold over.

as you can see there is no counting this way which allows you to get on target much faster than counting out the same 11 clicks if you did it your way. But if you use a scope that does not use this type of turret marking, counting may be needed, but not fun.

also if you get some of the target models they too sometimes have their turrets marked in the same manner.

Hope this helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Aussie]

Knappy ,
Before you get too carried away with dialling for distance you might like to check the accuracy of your Tasco's adjustments . They're a lower priced make and adjustments may or may not be accurate .
Make up a target with 4 aiming points in the corners of a 3 inch square . Fire a 3 shot group at 100 yds at the aiming point in top RH corner , adjust scope 12 clicks left and fire another 3 , 12 clicks down and fire 3 more , 12 clicks right and fire 3 more , 12 clicks up and fire 3 more .
First and last group should be on top of each other . Centres of all groups should be in a 3 inch square . Also suggest you see if point of impact changes at different power settings or with movement of the adjustable objective . Borrow a scope collimator for the last 2 checks .
You'll be pushing sh-t uphill in this game if your scope fails these tests .

 

[C Knappenberger]

Thanks Aussie, I appriciate the advice. I will check the accuracy of my scope like you suggested. So my Tasco, more than likely, will not be a good choice for long range shooting? I need to start saving for a better scope I guess.