Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box

[RAGGED EDGE]

The motorsickle community used to have a saying "20 Grand and 20 miles don't make you a biker."
Same here.
"10 Grand and 10 shots don't make you a long range hunter."

OR even a hunter. When you get a driver's license you have to take a test.....

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

So I have read all of the comments thus far, and while there have been valid claims and blames, this situation is a multi-headed monster. It is our moral duty as hunters to hone our craft to ensure the quickest and most humane kill possible. We truly owe that to the animals that God has blessed us with managing. I feel that for the most part, we seasoned hunters accomplish this moral duty year in and year out. Where we fail, IMHO, is filling the gap between aspiring new sportsmen and the "seasoned hunter". Witnessing the snarky high horse comments on this particular topic/forum and in person at physical ranges, is part of the problem that creates this issue with aspiring new sportsmen. The other part of the problem is shared by the propaganda and marketing ploys put forth by the gun, ammunition and accessories manufacturers. Buy this new rifle with a sub moa guaranty. Buy this new high BC/SD bullet guaranteed to buck the wind and stay supersonic to 1000 yards...the "hype monster" is real. As our lives get busier and busier with jobs, kids, and life in general, we all can ignore getting to the range as much as we should. As crazy as life is, there are some people who have always wanted to be a seasoned sportsmen and life got in the way. These people long to get into the woods and dream of a connection to the wilderness. Unfortunately if these people don't have a dad, uncle or family members that are seasoned hunters or marksmen, then they can easily fall into the "hype monsters" snare. I was lucky enough to be in the Marines to learn how to become a marksmen with a rifle. Unfortunately when I tried to adapt that training to hunting, things didn't work out so well. I bought into the "hype monster" BS until I figured out what works and what doesn't. I didn't have any family members to help, this forum wasn't around, and the old guys at the local range sure in the heck didn't offer any help or guidance. Long story short, when you witness new sportsmen at a range, instead of increasing the anxiety and frustration of the new sportsmen by pulling out your contender pistol and sniping the gong at your home range, how about going over and lending a little help. You never know how welcoming your gesture of help and knowledge may accepted and followed, and how many animals you might save from the "hype monster's" latest and greatest sub-moa, hyper velocity, slow death causing marketing campaign. Save your humor for you and your buddies around the campfire, not at the expense of someone else's misfortune at the range!

 

[Turkeytider]

Years ago I went on a moose hunt in Canada with a guy I knew. Jim wanted to take a rifle with a little more killing power than his 270, so I let him borrow my 300 Weatherby while I took my 375 H&H. For the area we were hunting, 100 yards shots are considered on the long end of the spectrum, with most shots being closer to 50 yards. For three weeks before we left, I badgered him to shoot and practice, according to him, work simply didn't afford him the time, even though he didn't work Saturdays or Sundays. It was all right that I'd spent hours working up a load and sighting the rifle in, but he couldn't spend a half hour just to practice. I had sighted the rifle in for a 100 yards but I explained to him that rifles shoot differently for every shooter and that he needed to make certain that the rifle zero was right for him. On the fifth day of the hunt I heard him shoot and went to investigate. From where he shot to the blood stain was 80 yards at most. All he kept repeating was, "he's a monster". He went, got the guide and began the search. Two hours and a couple of miles later they found themselves at the beginning of a swamp; this was the delineation line between the reserve we were hunting and Federal land that didn't permit hunting; he lost his moose. The guide surmised from the color of the blood that he'd missed the lungs, and hit the moose too far back. There's a hell of a difference between a 270 Winchester and a 300 Weatherby, you need to get acclimated to the recoil. The kill zone on a moose is twice that of a white tail, but he still managed to miss it at 80 yards. I didn't have to tell him he was an idiot, he knew. He lost a trophy of a lifetime just because he was to lazy to practice. Other than my son, I haven't allowed anyone to borrow one of my rifles since then. The SOB never even offered to pay for any of the bullets, powder and brass I bought for the hunt. That in itself should have told me something, never hunted with him again.

The guy obviously didn`t respect the animal and the life he would be taking. Hate to think about the suffering that moose no doubt endured. The biggest game I hunt is the turkey. I made sure my gun/load were patterned properly and have a self-imposed 40 yard shot rule ( usually try to get him closer ). I don`t want him to know what hit him. I owe him that.

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

I heard Gentry makes a 3-position safety for Remington 700. That's all I know about it though as I am not a Remington man.

Dennis does, and it's a good one. Personally, I've never felt completely comfortable around a rifle that doesn't have one. They NEED to be installed by a gunsmith who KNOWS what he is about.

 

[LongestShot]

Man you nailed it

It's common in Europe to be required to take a proficiency test to qualify in shooting before you're given a permit or license. It makes perfect sense; this could be handled by local police, sheriff or even through local gun clubs. It would remove the bottom 10%, the ones that show up at camp with a new, never fired rifle that's only been bore sighted. Shooting past 300 yards takes practice and knowledge of your ballistics; hell these shooters have no idea how to compensate for wind drift.

 

[LongestShot]

The guy obviously didn`t respect the animal and the life he would be taking. Hate to think about the suffering that moose no doubt endured. The biggest game I hunt is the turkey. I made sure my gun/load were patterned properly and have a self-imposed 40 yard shot rule ( usually try to get him closer ). I don`t want him to know what hit him. I owe him that.

I love Moose meat; made the best stew I ever had. Going home with empty coolers really ticked me off.

 

[Ricc]

Bone to pick and advice. Over the past ten years, we have seen a massive growth in out of the box 1000 yard capable rifles. Set up amazingly, built incredibly well and topped with amazing glass. Even engineered ammo. Then add ranging binos and ballistics calculators and you have a pretty amazing set up. True

If you buy one of these, awesome. SHOOT IT before you show up in camp. SO many times, I have been in camp trueing my D.O.P.E. and had some person show up with a rifle they have never shot and expecting to shoot their animal. They sit down, start shooting and wonder why they arent hitting the 500 yard target I set up.

Its because no one who cannot shoot 500 should try to shoot 500. Further more, shooting 600 is not a little harder than 500, its way harder. Just like shooting 1000 is not 2x as hard as shooting 500. NO its 10x harder. Especially in the field!! Especially with untested rifle, ammo, and hunter.

I have seen a few animals wounded and die terrible, long and painful deaths. Seen a few even not be recovered that were shot very badly. Please, show up ready to be an ethical hunter rather than showing up with bravado and ego. There is a reason military shooters have DOPE, so they hit the target correctly the first time! Then, true their dope...its takes time but the animal deserves it.

Luckily those types of people, or at least some, buy a rifle, buy bullets and go hunting.
The firearm doesn't shoot that well, they blame others. The bright part is they will lose interest and sell the firearm. They probably won't shoot anymore and some lucky someone gets a great deal on a low mileage rifle. I've bought two that way, would definitely buy again.

 

[bonie]

Shot yesterday from 300, 400, 530, have shot 300 and 400 before taken deer at 385, but stepping back to 530 sure make the target shrink, opened my eyes to what it takes. Did pretty good with the 300WSM with 178 ELDX hand loads A Tikka with a 4 x16 Nikon Monarch but after finding height, I shot a 5 1/2" 3 shot group, I'll take it. My 6.5 PRC hell canyon Long range with Vortex Viper SF 6 x 24 set at 18 with143 ELDX hand loads shot flatter once I figured out the height 3" high buy 7 1/2" wide 5 shot group. winds were 3-6 gusts with brakes . so we shot the brakes, also a flag at the target. So I'm headed out for and Elk hunt next month, I now my limits and weather wise my comfort level at present condition. the mor wind the closer my shot must be.

 

[Critter Picker]

I'm retired,but work part time at a LGS. You absolutely can not believe the people that come through there.

Just one example. Had a guy come in looking for a scope. I ask what the rifle would be used for. He replies that he does a lot of long range coyote hunting. I asked the price range and he told me something middle of the road. We had a sale going on so I suggested a Vortex viper 5-25. He looks at it, hands it back and asks about a Vortex Crossfire 4-12. I hand it to him, he points to the parallax adjustment and asks "what's this for" . I tried to explain parallax to him but it was WAY over his head. After about half an hour of trying to explain optics to him,he grabs a $79.00 4 -12 scope and walks out. Where did I go wrong? I was just trying to be helpful.

 

[DarryH]

Years ago I worked in a store with a small firearms selection. I mounted and bore sighted scopes. I had done a combo for a customer and explained that he would have to finish sighting in the rifle himself. He came back a month or so after and thanked me for doing such a good job as he got his elk with one shot. Turns out he had not shot the rifle until the elk came into sight. I tried telling him how lucky he was and why. I don't think he ever did understand what I was talking about. Pure blind luck !!!!!

 

[Darryle]

Line of sight Crossings?

I believe he's talking about the point the bullet trajectory crosses from below to above the scopes line of sight and then when it intersects again with that line of sight at the point "zero".

 

[Rum River]

Had a steady customer come in for a bore sight on a rifle/scope combination that he had mounted himself. Usually we would charge for mounting/bore sighting if they hadn't purchased one or the other at our store - but this person was a regular so said I would do it for free.

While we were walking back to the shop I asked him what trouble he was having.
"The elevation and windage adjustments aren't working right, when I move just one it moves the other one too."

Yup, he had the scope mounted in the rings so the crosshairs were an 'X'.

I politely and professionally with a forced deadpan expression explained what the trouble was as I adjusted everything.

He paused, looked at me with a bewildered expression and said:
"But when we were target shooting, all my buddies kept talking about how 'X' marks the spot."

It was tough, but I managed to be professional.

 

[Earnhardt]

Had a steady customer come in for a bore sight on a rifle/scope combination that he had mounted himself. Usually we would charge for mounting/bore sighting if they hadn't purchased one or the other at our store - but this person was a regular so said I would do it for free.

While we were walking back to the shop I asked him what trouble he was having.
"The elevation and windage adjustments aren't working right, when I move just one it moves the other one too."

Yup, he had the scope mounted in the rings so the crosshairs were an 'X'.

I politely and professionally with a forced deadpan expression explained what the trouble was as I adjusted everything.

He paused, looked at me with a bewildered expression and said:
"But when we were target shooting, all my buddies kept talking about how 'X' marks the spot."

It was tough, but I managed to be professional.

...And this is what this entire thread is about...you can't make this up

Funny stuff man!

 

[Turkeytider]

I'm retired,but work part time at a LGS. You absolutely can not believe the people that come through there.

Just one example. Had a guy come in looking for a scope. I ask what the rifle would be used for. He replies that he does a lot of long range coyote hunting. I asked the price range and he told me something middle of the road. We had a sale going on so I suggested a Vortex viper 5-25. He looks at it, hands it back and asks about a Vortex Crossfire 4-12. I hand it to him, he points to the parallax adjustment and asks "what's this for" . I tried to explain parallax to him but it was WAY over his head. After about half an hour of trying to explain optics to him,he grabs a $79.00 4 -12 scope and walks out. Where did I go wrong? I was just trying to be helpful.

Kind of scary to think about some of the folks that are out there " handling" firearms. It would be interesting if there was a way to probe a gun buyer`s background to see if anyone ( father, mother, uncle, etc., etc. ) somewhere along the way provided any kind of training with and appreciation for the thing that they`re holding in their hands and the responsibility that comes along with it.