Bonded vs Non Bonded - Accubond vs Berger or SST or Ballistic Tip

[manitou]

Of the last fourteen big game animals I have shot with Accubonds out of my .280s, twelve died in there footprints and two died within ten yards of the shot. One 621 yds, one 554 yds, one 376 yds, one 351 yds, one 503 yds, one @572 yds. The rest were from 50 to 200 yds.
I have never been left wanting when using Accubonds.

 

[Kimber7man]

Several years ago I switched from using Nosler Partitions to AccuBonds and immediately noticed that bang/flop was no longer happening. It took me several seasons to finally conclude that the AccuBonds simply didn't anchor whitetails like my old favorite Partitions did.

I think that the Partition simply opens up a lot faster but that the rear part carries on through so you get both a devastating shock of a fast opening bullet and the great penetration of a tough bullet. By the way I think the whole weight retention argument is the silliest I've ever heard of for measuring terminal performance.

When I started complaining here on LRH about Accubonds I got poo pooed and was told that my evidence was anecdotal and that there were many more reports of fast kills with the AccuBonds than my experiences but I still insist that while AccuBonds are good penetrators and supremely accurate in my rifles, they just don't anchor whitetails like Partitions.

Sooooo..... As a compromise, I have started using 168gr 308 Nosler Ballistic Tips in my lightweight 308 deer rifle and I have the advantage of better accuracy than the Partitions especially beyond 100 yds and pretty good anchoring but I'm still not sure I shouldn't just go back to Partitions and accept that slight accuracy loss but get the bang/flop advantage back.

The 308 168 NBT is a heck of a stout bullet. Similar to the 7mm 120 and 150.

 

[NorthernHunter67]

Thanks. My wife's 7mm-08 shoots cloverleafs with the 120gr Ballistic Tip, it's her go to load for deer and javelinas and they kill fast. Tough little bullet.

I have heard a few Hunter/, Handloaders say the 120gr Ballistic Tip is tougher than the 140gr???

 

[NorCalRiceGuy]

I have heard a few Hunter/, Handloaders say the 120gr Ballistic Tip is tougher than the 140gr???

Correct. Thicker copper vs percentage of core material.

 

[LVJ76]

I have heard a few Hunter/, Handloaders say the 120gr Ballistic Tip is tougher than the 140gr???

It is, it has a thicker jacket and holds together better, it is deadly and accurate.

 

[NorthernHunter67]

When I started hunting with the 270 WSM and The 300 RUM, I had great success with 130gr BT 270, and 180 gr BT 300 RUM. All dead Right There with lots of damage to the lungs, like Jell-O. Ranges were 200 - 400 yards. But one year hunting in Oregon with my 270 WSM the BT exploded. the Black tail was at 20 feet. Had to track it and found it with a 6 inch hole no exit. Thinking it was just the 270 WSM, did not Change the 180 BT until two years later when the same thing happen on a elk and 25 yards. I switched over to the AB or NP and never looked back. I did shoot a nice Mule Deer Buck 4X4 and a 3X4 Bull Elk this last year with the 190 ABLR with my 300 WSM with no issues, both DRT. Deer was at 175 yards and the Elk was at 300 Yards. The Whole Idea of the AB or the ABLR is to keep them from blowing up at short range. the facts of life of long range hunting is sometimes the range is measured in feet, not yards, and any animal with holes in both Lungs are not going far, but if the bullet blows up and only take out one you are in for a long track and could even lose the animal. Just my opinion and what 55 years of experience has taught me.

I had the same experience with my 300wsm and 150gr Ballistic Tips at 25yards on White Tail, one Buck ran into heavy bush after a broadside shot behind the left shoulder with no blood trail---Coyotes got him. Later on a big Doe the BT fragmented,destroying the far shoulder, went through the diaphragm to open the stomach which I hate happening. This year going with Accubonds or Barnes TSX for close range shots.

 

[Wachsmann]

My wife dropped her buck at 298 yards with a small very anemic 87grn VLD in a 243. MV was right at 2800. Bullet turned inside out and ended up in the off side hide. So quartering away through the lungs and through 1 shoulder. He took one huge lunge forward and dirt plowed about 10 feet. Then dead. Bullet worked very well in my experience.

 

[DartonJager]

Wish I had known this before I invested in a butt load of 180grn NAB's for my 300wsm.
Both the 180 NAB and the 180 NBT shoot one hole 5 shot groups out of my 300wsm T3.
I own nothing in .308 bullets under 180 grains. Guess I look for some now before this deer season. Have killed 7 doe with 180 SGK and are absolutely 100% satisfied with their performance but none were shots over 300 yards.

 

[LVJ76]

@DartonJager if you are going for through the shoulder shots or high shoulder then you should be ok.

For meat saver shots they are no good. I'll take the Gamekings for double lung any day before the Accubond.

 

[Kimber7man]

Wish I had known this before I invested in a butt load of 180grn NAB's for my 300wsm.
Both the 180 NAB and the 180 NBT shoot one hole 5 shot groups out of my 300wsm T3.
I own nothing in .308 bullets under 180 grains. Guess I look for some now before this deer season. Have killed 7 doe with 180 SGK and are absolutely 100% satisfied with their performance but none were shots over 300 yards.

The 180 ballistic tip is a pretty stout bullet too, John Barsness gives them plenty of praise.

 

[Bullmark]

I haven't been able to stop hunting whitetails long enough to have enough shots on other animals(Elk, bear, etc.) to be much help. But I have easily shot 150 whitetails over the years, and been in the hunting party of many more that were shot by friends.
For the longest time, when I was young and not interested in the subject, I shot all of my deer w/ a .300 WM, and used a hodge podge of bullets. I was told to shoot them high in the shoulder and there would be no tracking required. So that's what I did.....and that's what happened.
More recently, over the past 12-15 yrs, I've gotten interested in rifle building, longer range shooting, and the ballistics/terminal performance of different calibers and bullets. I also don't shoot nearly as many deer as before, as managing my ground for older deer has become the #1 priority.
But I have shot, and witnessed many others shot with Berger VLDs, and the only complaint is the amount of meat ruined by the devastating wound channel and exit hole. Most were shot w/168gr but a few w/ 180s out of a 7STW, and a few more w/ 140s. All the same result....bang, flop, then came the comments about the exit hole.
I realize these are not Elk, so I don't pretend the same results will transfer.
Many of these whitetails have been big, mature, heavy weights, in Nebraska, Canada, Kansas and Wisconsin.....but still not the size of an elk.
I hope to get off the deer one day and hunt Elk and other animals with some regularity. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there and decide what bullet to use at that time.
My only other comment is most of the time "poor bullet performance" and equipment shortcomings in general, are actually user error. If u shoot an animal and never recover, how do you know exactly where the entrance and exit were? I have friends who produce TV shows in the industry and film every hunt. They use the best camera equipment made, and we still have times where a consensus opinion cannot reached....after playing back the shot on a 60 inch, high def flat screen TV....297 times....in slow motion.
I do enjoy reading about the crazy things that others have experienced....a lot more educational than the newspaper or cable news.

 

[NorthernHunter67]

Wish I had known this before I invested in a butt load of 180grn NAB's for my 300wsm.
Both the 180 NAB and the 180 NBT shoot one hole 5 shot groups out of my 300wsm T3.
I own nothing in .308 bullets under 180 grains. Guess I look for some now before this deer season. Have killed 7 doe with 180 SGK and are absolutely 100% satisfied with their performance but none were shots over 300 yards.

I think you will do fine with either 180gr Accubonds or Ballistic Tips in a 300wsm for deer, Accubonds for closer range and grips for longer range.

 

[NorthernHunter67]

It is, it has a thicker jacket and holds together better, it is deadly and accurate.

I emailed Nosler about the 7mm 120gr BTip and got this reply:
The 7mm-120gr BT was designed with a slightly thicker jacket than the 7mm-140gr BT's because the lighter bullet will have higher muzzle velocities and thus higher impact velocities which the thicker jacket will help with decreasing fragmentation and increasing weight retention as you mentioned below.



The 7mm-140gr AccuBond is also a great bullet in the 7mm-08 that will also work great on deer so you'd be in good shape either way.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Well its interesting what you can pick-up in these threads, I always remembered and considered the 120gr BT's to be varmint bullets and never considered them for deer. Course I remember when a lot of the ballistic tip bullets were way frangible with poor penetration on deer and never really tried any after they toughened up the line. By then it was partitions and no looking back till the more accurate accubonds caught my eye and became bullet of choice. Going to pick up some 120BT's along with some 140BT's as well, might be time to give em' another look.

Them 120BT's would sure be a good bullet to try in the 26" long range gun, varget should push them pretty good. Cheer's!