Best Press For Precision Shooting? (Single Stage vs. Turret)

[Centre Punch]

Hi Bart,
Maybe i should explain that by accurate, i meant accurately loaded ( inline, concentric etc ), rather then accurate shooting.
I take a lot of notice of what the benchresters are doing regarding their handloading techniques ( i shot UK Benchrest for 2 seasons) and try to integrate them into my own habdloading program.
I think its unfair to presume that i take all of my ques from the BR community, that would be a pretty blinkered outlook.
I have been handloading now for 23 years, for pistol, precision, Benchrest, BPCR and now purely because i enjoy it.
I like to think that i have picked up tips from all forms of handloading and combine the best ideas in how i put together my ammo today.

Ian

 

[Bart B]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe i should explain that by accurate, i meant accurately loaded ( inline, concentric etc ), rather then accurate shooting. I take a lot of notice of what the benchresters are doing regarding their handloading techniques ( i shot UK Benchrest for 2 seasons) and try to integrate them into my own habdloading program. I think its unfair to presume that i take all of my ques from the BR community, that would be a pretty blinkered outlook.

[/ QUOTE ]Ian, thanks for clarifying your "accurate" issue. It's been my experience that proper use of conventional presses and dies will make ammo to the same standards of uniformity as the hand ones used by many benchresters. The only exception is to not use an expander ball in the sizing dies but have their neck sizing part a couple thousandths of an inch smaller than loaded round neck diameter.

Having measured many cases reloaded by both benchrest hand tools and conventional ones, I've found equal uniformity of shape and alignment is equal. The only difference I've seen here in the USA is long range competitors weigh powder charges to smaller tolerances than what short range benchresters do by metering them, but that doesn't make any significant difference.

I asked about your possibly using the benchrest discipline as a reference as that's the only competitive one in Great Britain that allows handloaded ammo in their meets. Great Britain's National Rifle Association does not allow handloaded nor reloaded ammunition in their fullbore (called highpower in the USA) competition (300 to 1000 yards). One must use issued ammo that typically comes from a military arsenal; Radway Green, for example. For some reason, Great Britain's NRA has never allowed fullbore competitors to make their own ammo; either they don't trust handloaded ammo or think if everyone uses the same ammo (but in any rifle they choose as long as it shoots the 7.62mm NATO round) that will level the playing field and not give any advantage to someone who loads better ammo or uses a better cartridge or bullet than someone else.

 

[Centre Punch]

Hi Bart,
You are correct in what you say, it is a rediculous rule, but only applies to the disciplines of TR.....Target Rifle which you would know as "Palma" rather then High Power.
Shooters fire a series of rounds at ranges from 300 to 1000yds in the prone position from highly refined custom single shot bolt rifles utilizing Aperture type sights.
TR was originally "Service Rifle A" but in the 60s became Target Rifle because shooters began experimenting with the modern technology of the time, the NRA in its wisdom decided to cling to tradition and carry on using the current service round as used in SR "A".
A few years ago the prestigious Queens Meeting was almost abandoned because the ministry of defence procured "cheapest" 7.62x51 Nato (Greek) ammo that was issued to the competitors was well below standard.
There were fears that the meeting would not take place, this could not be allowed to happen, it would be as bad as loosing the empire!
Wheels were put in motion and someone high up ordered that a special run of Radway Green (which had been mothballed) sniper grade ammo be manufactured and rushed to the meeting to be shot on the saturday afternoon!

Ian.

 

[Fulldraw™]

Redding Ultramag Press for me!

 

[joe0121]

I have a hornady, works just fine. Is kinda annoying when loading for .300 WM have to put the bullet up into the seater die then drop it into the case. A small complaint. I really want a CoAx not sure If I want to spend the 250 bucks on it. Since I neck size with lee does I don't like the cam over "feature" of the Hornaday press.

 

[Reloader222]

I use a RCBS Rock Chucker and Redding Turret Press from the 80's. Both gives excellent reliability and accuracy.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Most responders will tell you to get the press they use?? (Duh!!) Few will tell you "Don't get the XXX, I have one and it sucks". It's just the way these boards work.

But keep in mind this.

Shell holders are NOT precision devices on purpose - the "standing hight" is standardized so head space will be the same with all dies, but the fit of the rim is deliberatly sloppy so the case will self-align to the die.

So all the hype about the press is nothing - Nada... the case will flop around until it finishes it's trip into the die, and then the precision of the die will determine the precision of the round. You can load great ammo on a dinky press, if the dies are great.

So whether you buy a RCBS Jr. or a 30 pound animal like the C-H Champion, it makes no difference in the accuracy.

The bigger presses will make the work easier because they have longer handles and more leverage.

The T-Presses are handy if you load only one cartridge, and only a few of them... but most loaders soon find that these are not as solid for "big" or magnum cases.

The Bonanza is nice, but impossible to use most bullet pullers with.

The RCBS Ruckchucker is an OK middle sized press, but now that they are made in China, they are off of my personal list.

The Redding large "O" frame is very good.
The C-H Champion is the animal of the bunch at 30 pounds - and it's not cast aluminum, it's solid iron.

Redding and Forster match dies are the best available.

RCBS dies are OK.

Hornady dies are much better than they should be for the price, and are better than RCBS.

The US Palma team loads their 1000 yd ammo on a Dillon 550, so don't let anyone tell you that progressives can't load "serious" ammo.

And I won't tell you which press I use. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

you can pull bullets with the Forster press. Their bullet puller is a bit awkward in that press, but the one from Hornaday would be fairly easy if it works like they say it does. I still prefer to pull bullets with my RCBS Partner, but don't think the Co-Ax won't.

gary

 

[dig]

If i was starting out I would recommend the Forster Co-Ax for a press and agree with everyone on the fact that dies make the big difference. Go with Redding or Forster, the extra $10 for a set goes a long ways. The Co-Ax is very easy to set up and change dies with minimal or no adjustment. It is quick and I love the self indexing shell plate. As a side the Hornady bullet puller does work in this press.

That being said I load the majority of my go to calibers even magnums on a turret press and have found zero difference in quality. I followed allot of great advice (and ruled out some bad) from these forums. The O-ring under the die works great, ensuring you clean the shell holder with a stiff brush before loading, rotating the case when bullet seating. The turret press is very handy and I have several turrets set up by size which does save time and effort. I rarely have to make adjustment once set up, I even clean the dies in the turret.

I have loaded a lot of .223 on a Dillon 550 and find that I do have to tweak the dies but it loads **** near as well. Its all about keeping an eye on things and measuring frequently. Have fun!

 

[Zep]

Some great advice above, not much to add in those terms.

But I would like to add, try to find a "reloading mentor", someone who can give you on the spot advice and help you set things up and keep you on track for about a year or more.

I have been shooting shotgun at clay for over 15 years but metallic reloading is an entirely different study. I did all my homework and bought a Redding T-7 turret with Redding dies and a very kind fellow shooter helped me get up to speed. This is a great press for handgun and probably everything else but i have only used it for handgun so far.

I am now getting into bottle neck rifle and will probably use a Redding Big Boss. I think I will be using Forster dies for this application only because I want to try them. I am also going to use a RCBS 1010 (mentor's choice) scale for the rifle but keep using the powder drop for the handgun at least for now.

Of note, read anything you can get your hands on. The ABCs of Reloading is a great book. I had read Lee's a few years back before the T-7 and it helped as well. Next is going to be Lyman's. I am already looking for more reads.

My advice, find a mentor and read, read, read. Great stuff and nice people on this site as well may I add.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Some great advice above, not much to add in those terms.

But I would like to add, try to find a "reloading mentor", someone who can give you on the spot advice and help you set things up and keep you on track for about a year or more.

I have been shooting shotgun at clay for over 15 years but metallic reloading is an entirely different study. I did all my homework and bought a Redding T-7 turret with Redding dies and a very kind fellow shooter helped me get up to speed. This is a great press for handgun and probably everything else but i have only used it for handgun so far.

I am now getting into bottle neck rifle and will probably use a Redding Big Boss. I think I will be using Forster dies for this application only because I want to try them. I am also going to use a RCBS 1010 (mentor's choice) scale for the rifle but keep using the powder drop for the handgun at least for now.

Of note, read anything you can get your hands on. The ABCs of Reloading is a great book. I had read Lee's a few years back before the T-7 and it helped as well. Next is going to be Lyman's. I am already looking for more reads.

My advice, find a mentor and read, read, read. Great stuff and nice people on this site as well may I add.

your kinda lucky in that you have someone to help you thru the learning stages. I knew a couple guys that reloaded and my brother did as well, but at the time these guys literally threw their rounds together. I made a trip to the NRA convention one year with my brother, and I guess we wondered around in there for two solid days! They had a row of presses setup with .308 dies in them with barrels of military .308 brass in them. I tried them all several times (there were no sales folks close by), and kept going back to one certain press. A guy walks up to me that I'd seen in Shooting Times magazine for several years, and simply said that's the one. Of course that was the late Bob Milek. He said he owned two of them, and told me a lot about how they worked. He also showed me the ins and outs of several other brands on display. Then this really tall guy walks up and Milek introduces me to Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton came over a minute or so later. I was in seventh heavan!! I saw Elmer Kieth about a hundred feet away, but he got away before Bob could catch up with him (had that huge cowboy hat on, and really stood out).

I go home with all kinds of notions in my mind as to what I wanted. Brother said to buy this kind or that kind, but I knew I didn't like them that well. Went to work that night and went down to see the guy I bought most of my firearms from. Told him to buy this press, and he said are you sure? I said get me one! He gets it for the then ghastly sum of $83!! Brother said I was flat nuts for spending that much as did Jerry (the dealer). The press comes in, and Jerry calls me up to ask me for permission to try it out as he's never quite seen anything like like it. I said it was alright with me, and a couple days later he orders in five more of them (he sold four of them in one weekend alone). When I picked up the press I also bought a Lyman .357 mag die set to go along with the well used C&H 30 Herrett die set I had (keep in mind I also had no idea how to set them up). I promptly destroyed the stem in the 30 Herrett die! I needed some parts and had no idea who C&H was, but started calling around and got one in the mail. Then I needed some other stuff and called Fred Sinclair, and he literally coached me into my setup right on the phone! About a week later I get this book in the mail from Fred on precision reloading (this was before the book went into print). It seemed like I was asking him questions about once a week, and he walked me right thru the process. I should have never started out with the Herrett. Since then I've bought many dies off Fred and a lot of reloading items. When I got back to the 30 Herrett seriously I got back in contact with Milek, and we traded letters back and fourth for a couple years. He was moving into XP's at the time, but was always there for a answer. Between Fred and Bob, I don't know that I'd ever got anywhere without them.

Now I do about 25 different rounds when I'm in the mood, and rarely reach a glitch (we all have at one time or another). I own dies from Forster, Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and Hornaday. I prefer the first two brands for bottlenecked cases, but for some oddball reason I like the Lymans for my revolvers. And yes I did replace those old Herrett dies with a Forster set. Now I have a 30 caliber Super Herrett in the works as soon as I can lay my hands on the right bolt action single shot pistol.
gary

 

[joe0121]

your kinda lucky in that you have someone to help you thru the learning stages. I knew a couple guys that reloaded and my brother did as well, but at the time these guys literally threw their rounds together. I made a trip to the NRA convention one year with my brother, and I guess we wondered around in there for two solid days! They had a row of presses setup with .308 dies in them with barrels of military .308 brass in them. I tried them all several times (there were no sales folks close by), and kept going back to one certain press. A guy walks up to me that I'd seen in Shooting Times magazine for several years, and simply said that's the one. Of course that was the late Bob Milek. He said he owned two of them, and told me a lot about how they worked. He also showed me the ins and outs of several other brands on display. Then this really tall guy walks up and Milek introduces me to Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton came over a minute or so later. I was in seventh heavan!! I saw Elmer Kieth about a hundred feet away, but he got away before Bob could catch up with him (had that huge cowboy hat on, and really stood out).

I go home with all kinds of notions in my mind as to what I wanted. Brother said to buy this kind or that kind, but I knew I didn't like them that well. Went to work that night and went down to see the guy I bought most of my firearms from. Told him to buy this press, and he said are you sure? I said get me one! He gets it for the then ghastly sum of $83!! Brother said I was flat nuts for spending that much as did Jerry (the dealer). The press comes in, and Jerry calls me up to ask me for permission to try it out as he's never quite seen anything like like it. I said it was alright with me, and a couple days later he orders in five more of them (he sold four of them in one weekend alone). When I picked up the press I also bought a Lyman .357 mag die set to go along with the well used C&H 30 Herrett die set I had (keep in mind I also had no idea how to set them up). I promptly destroyed the stem in the 30 Herrett die! I needed some parts and had no idea who C&H was, but started calling around and got one in the mail. Then I needed some other stuff and called Fred Sinclair, and he literally coached me into my setup right on the phone! About a week later I get this book in the mail from Fred on precision reloading (this was before the book went into print). It seemed like I was asking him questions about once a week, and he walked me right thru the process. I should have never started out with the Herrett. Since then I've bought many dies off Fred and a lot of reloading items. When I got back to the 30 Herrett seriously I got back in contact with Milek, and we traded letters back and fourth for a couple years. He was moving into XP's at the time, but was always there for a answer. Between Fred and Bob, I don't know that I'd ever got anywhere without them.

Now I do about 25 different rounds when I'm in the mood, and rarely reach a glitch (we all have at one time or another). I own dies from Forster, Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and Hornaday. I prefer the first two brands for bottlenecked cases, but for some oddball reason I like the Lymans for my revolvers. And yes I did replace those old Herrett dies with a Forster set. Now I have a 30 caliber Super Herrett in the works as soon as I can lay my hands on the right bolt action single shot pistol.
gary

What press was it?

 

[Trickymissfit]

What press was it?

a Bananza, which later became a Forster. It's so old that the priming device still uses the normal shell holders but with the larger hole inside them. Also just as tight today as the day I removed it from the box in 1978
gary

 

[joe0121]

a Bananza, which later became a Forster. It's so old that the priming device still uses the normal shell holders but with the larger hole inside them. Also just as tight today as the day I removed it from the box in 1978
gary

Thats what I thought. They are cool I want one.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Thats what I thought. They are cool I want one.

I also have a small RCBS Partner press right beside the big press (it really looks small compaired to the other). I use it for a couple little jobs that seem awkward in the Co-Ax. The press was checked with a magnetic cylinder square about six years ago (I used a certified six inch square ) that was about one inch in diameter), and after a very light stoning of the bolster plate turned out to be extremely square when checked on four sides of the cylinder, and the error of the cylinder square computed. Looked to be well under .0008" in the full travel. The reason I had to hit the bolster plate with an India stone was that I found a couple of small bumps that I never noticed before. Looked like the female threads for the sliding jaws was the problem. I wanted to use a small granit cube, but it just wouldn't fit in there. The figures I got pretty much showed up in resized cases and loaded ammo when you figure in errors from the lock ring on the die and the case rim (about .0015" is the norm).

I also did a similar test with my K&M arbor press, and it really wasn't as square, but with the Wilson dies being so tight it didn't matter much.
gary