Best LRH caliber to start with?

[D.ID]

From the sounds of the rest of this thread i must be crazy... but my vote goes to the 308

I'm sorry but I have to ask...............Have you read this thread or even the first post? Where the question suggests a new rifle, A "built" for long range rifle, a first long range but NOT first rifle, A 600 yard or more elk rifle, for a guy who reloads. Who in there right mind would suggest a 308 or even the much better 270 for those purposes under those permitters? I understand some of my perspective may be offensive but I can not help but wonder what the hell are you thinking? Or perhaps more likely, you are offering an opinion without having followed the question. I see this all the time and it is frustrating to watch frankly...............D.ID

 

[toddc]

I'm sorry but I have to ask...............Have you read this thread or even the first post? Where the question suggests a new rifle, A "built" for long range rifle, a first long range but NOT first rifle, A 600 yard or more elk rifle, for a guy who reloads. Who in there right mind would suggest a 308 or even the much better 270 for those purposes under those permitters? I understand some of my perspective may be offensive but I can not help but wonder what the hell are you thinking? Or perhaps more likely, you are offering an opinion without having followed the question. I see this all the time and it is frustrating to watch frankly...............D.ID

Many threads on here seem to be answered with little practical experience or even "internet research"(bad enough most of the time). Leafing around on the computer for 2 hrs seems to make everyone an "internet pro". If you want to be a PRO fine, just dont mislead people with bad advice.
Im not griping about what anyone posted here. To each his own, but 5 yrs ago this was a great place for an old pro to keep up with the newest stuff and for the beginner to learn.
Nowadays its become a great place to have an aneurism if a pro or learn how to wound things if you are a beginner.
I try to not give advice unless its one of my special areas of "personal experience and written research". If not I keep quiet.
Many of the beginers on here like to espouse stuff they read on manufacturers websites as being factual reality when those of us who have killed a critter or two hundred at 1k KNOW its not. Many beginners dont seem to have the sense to be quiet and listen when told about REALITY and not whatever AD they read.
Bullet/gun/scope makers ADVERTISEMENTS ARE NOT THE PLACE TO LEARN ABOUT LRH.
Here and a mountaintop(lotsa emphasis on mountaintop) are the places to learn LRH.
We should all consider that the crappy advice we sometimes give can have these effects:
1 cost $$$$$$ for no reason
2 wound animals
3 cause stress to hunter (have fun with that 308 yer gonna shoot 1550 with)
4 more stress to hunter(what the 308 didnt work so good at 600 when the wind blew the ttsrx into the shoulder)?
5 hunter death (Grizzly)
6 hunter death (overly hot reloads)
7 hunter death (snowstorm hits on the 7th hour you are looking for wounded animal)
8 hunter death (heart attack walking the 23rd mile you chase the 308 hit elk)

This stuff matters to a lot of the people who read it. They read it and then BELEIVE it. Please lets all keep our advice based on reality and experience and less on BULLET ADS.
This rant isnt about the guy DI.d answered. Its about the general QUALITY OF INFORMATION HERE. 5 years ago this was a cool place. Now its just annoying to post here with all of the clueless posters we have,who will argue with someone who really knows thier stuff just because they dont realize we have already been there and done that and got the T-shirt. People give advice on 1k guns all the time while openly admitting never having shot an animal past 300 yds. ***? I noticed when I got back on here recently that a lot of the old timers were gone. NOW I SEE WHY.

 

[Buano]

Like you I grew up hunting eastern farmland. Before my first elk hunt I believed a 7 MM Rem mag was a big cartridge. Since my first elk hunt I bought three used rifles, a Model 70 SS in .300 Weatherby, a Sako 75 SS in .375 H&H, and a Weatherby Accumark in .338-.378. Yes, I have learned that: at greater distances, where wind is hard to read, while shooting at animals that are hard to anchor, BIGGER IS BETTER.

I firmly believe elk cartridges start with a .300 Win mag. because not every shot is at a perfect target under perfect conditions. My .300 Weatherby is my "go to" Western hunt gun although the 7 mag might used under the right circumstances on a muley hunt. My 25-06 is a good choice for antelope, but the 7 mag reaches a little further. My .338-378 took my last elk, and it did so with authority. It's not cheap to shoot, but with what the rest of the hunt costs, so what?

For your specs, 600 yards on elk (which I read as 800 yards because that is the effective break in ranges I've seen in the West), and relatively inexpensive to shoot, I suggest you start looking at the .300 Win mag, .338 Win mag, .300 RUM, .338 RUM, .300 Weatherby, .340 Weatherby, and the .338-378 Weatherby. (I was surprised to find Weatherbys aren't as expensive as I once thought IF YOU BUY USED.)

An bull elk is monstrous compared to even a huge Eastern whitetail. If the angle isn't perfect you may have to penetrate a foot of muscle & bone to get to the vitals, and the bones may be 4" thick. As wind in the mountains can be very difficult to read, and because you climbed 1200 feet in the last 90 minutes, your shot placement may not be perfect. In that situation, a .300 Win mag is not very big.

Don't even consider a .308 for a 600 yard elk rifle. You may hit the animal, but you are very unlikely to recover it. Elk are too magnificent to shoot and have it die 3-days later just to rot or feed the wolves.

 

[rooster740]

I have 2 308's that I have killed alot of elk at up to 500 yards. One is my timber country to 500 yard elk saddle gun that I believe I was the most accurate with to jerk off my shoulder or pull out of a saddle scabbord and flat kill anything to 500 yards. My other 308 is set up to target shoot and play with in summer, and has been used to kill many elk at long range, and also dialed in and killed crippled elk at crazy ranges in stupid wind, that most clients would have given up on, or chased into forbidden hunting ground!

Recently I had my 300wm overhauled for a longer range saddle gun and for the last two hunting seasons I have not hardly seen my 308's! The 300wm can be loaded down to 30-06 velocities to do a bunch of off season shooting. I do not use a muzzle break on a saddle gun. and feel that this rifle although faily heavy is not bad to shoot or carry on my shoulder and every bit stout enough for elk at any range, that I am capable of.

My dedicated long range rig is a 300rum that is only tranported by vehicle or pack horse. It rarely kills elk, has made a lot of gravel out of distant rocks, and is fun to shoot, but just does not get used. It kicks like a 308ish and is louder then hell seems to like berger 230's and has more energy at 1000yard then my 243 does at 100 yards.

If I could have two rifles it would be a 300wm for hunting, and a 243 (not for elk) that is capable of shooting long bullets for everything smaller then deer.

I agree with everything stated in the two posts above, never is the situation ideal, and every situation is different!

 

[JPaul17]

Sorry for being such a deadbeat on my own post but I've been prepping for the late muzzleloader season in PA, I have been keeping up with the replies and there sure are alot of different views. I've tried to keep up with everyones thoughts and look at eachone and have a new plan of attack so to speak.

I realize the 308 is lacking alot when it comes the long range elk department and even not the best for deer. I know that sometimes oportunities arise that you just cant do anything about (that massive bull just one mountain over and your gun cant poke) but as an archery hunter theres a part of me that is driven by the chance to close the distance and the times that things just flat out dont go your way. I know there is always that remedy of the next caliber that may allow you to take that shot and even though I love hearing that boom-pause-thump theres gotta be a limit somewhere. I know I'll probably get alot of flack for saying that on a LR hunt but I realy cant see myself shooting past 1000yds but to me that more just seeing and shooting not too much of my style of hunting.

So back to the actual gun I'm turning towards a 7mm wsm or 7mm SAUM. I would love to just jump to a 300 weatherby or 300 rum but for the sake of the deer I hunt in PA I feel the 7 might be better. My main thinking was that due to still being in the East ill more than likely keep to a 140 or 160 class bullet, where the 7 has a better bc than the .30s. This would still allow me to go out west and have something miles ahead of a .308 and hopefully one day move up to one of the larger 300s or possibly a 338. I know people are still going to push for the bigger 300s but they seem to favor the bigger heavy bullets and I dont see the sense in running a conservative 165 bullet out of something like the 300rum for hunting here at home. Other reasons for the certain caliber choice is how much of a difference is there between short 7s and a longer one such as the stw or rem mag? My idea for the gun has stayed basically the same but now thinking of a 7wsm or saum and possibly in a long action to avoid magazine issues with longer bullets? Am I starting to get warmer with what would be appropriate. Thanks again for everyones input.

 

[toddc]

Sorry for being such a deadbeat on my own post but I've been prepping for the late muzzleloader season in PA, I have been keeping up with the replies and there sure are alot of different views. I've tried to keep up with everyones thoughts and look at eachone and have a new plan of attack so to speak.

I realize the 308 is lacking alot when it comes the long range elk department and even not the best for deer. I know that sometimes oportunities arise that you just cant do anything about (that massive bull just one mountain over and your gun cant poke) but as an archery hunter theres a part of me that is driven by the chance to close the distance and the times that things just flat out dont go your way. I know there is always that remedy of the next caliber that may allow you to take that shot and even though I love hearing that boom-pause-thump theres gotta be a limit somewhere. I know I'll probably get alot of flack for saying that on a LR hunt but I realy cant see myself shooting past 1000yds but to me that more just seeing and shooting not too much of my style of hunting.

So back to the actual gun I'm turning towards a 7mm wsm or 7mm SAUM. I would love to just jump to a 300 weatherby or 300 rum but for the sake of the deer I hunt in PA I feel the 7 might be better. My main thinking was that due to still being in the East ill more than likely keep to a 140 or 160 class bullet, where the 7 has a better bc than the .30s. This would still allow me to go out west and have something miles ahead of a .308 and hopefully one day move up to one of the larger 300s or possibly a 338. I know people are still going to push for the bigger 300s but they seem to favor the bigger heavy bullets and I dont see the sense in running a conservative 165 bullet out of something like the 300rum for hunting here at home. Other reasons for the certain caliber choice is how much of a difference is there between short 7s and a longer one such as the stw or rem mag? My idea for the gun has stayed basically the same but now thinking of a 7wsm or saum and possibly in a long action to avoid magazine issues with longer bullets? Am I starting to get warmer with what would be appropriate. Thanks again for everyones input.

Wow you hit it on the head. What you are describing (short mag LA), makes an awesome LIGHT or CARRY LR gun. Now you get good with it and then build a nasty 338 later. Now you have a walker gun and a "I AM THE KING OF THE MOUNTAIN" gun. Most nuts do something like that. I have a 338, a midrange (300 ultra,6/6.5/284,7 STW,) and a TRUCK GUN (real short) mines a 243 wssm ar.
The gun you are contemplating will work both places and will always make a nice carry gun if you do get the FEVER and start buying $1 338 slugs.

 

[rooster740]

I think you have choose wisely given your situation. There are places I hunt that like you said it is easier to close the distance. I am not a diehard long range hunter but I like to be proficient with the skills. There are places I hunt where I can see big 6 point bulls 600 to 800 yards away but there is no way to get to the animal and if you could the elk would be spoiled by the amount of time it would take to get there.

Long range hunting is like finding a good wife, everybody wants something different in the end, and you better pick the path to your trophy carefully and wisely!

 

[D.ID]

Sounds like a solid choice.

 

[bigngreen]

Looks like a good plan, I shoot some very similar set ups in my 270 or 270 WSM with .650+ bc bullets at 2850 or 3050 fps and they do a great job even on elk in the 800 yard range, mild shooting and easy going is a good way to start IMO. The RUM horse power is fun but the only reason I pull one out is because I'm out past 1100 yards on elk or I just want to blow something out of it's hooves

 

[WildRose]

Am I crazy or would the old .30-06 (no longer sexy, I realize) provide the young man with a small ballistic boost over the .308 for the same price? I hear all the points made for bigger, faster, heavier, and longer but I'm just trying to respond to the original question. Bullet options are practically limitless.

There's nothing on the continent you can't handle with the 06 at 600yds, and if you take big brown bears off the list you can take that to 800yds and deer sized game to 1,000 easily.

 

[WildRose]

A decent 7mm would make you happy I'm thinking. Start reloading and practising and you'll be pleasantly surprised at what it and you are capable of. An old Vietnam vet helped set me up with my 7 and 1000 yds is easily achieved. Would you shoot an animal at that range? That opens a whole different can of worms, are you capable of making a kill shot at that range? Is it ethical to take that chance of losing a wounded animal? Only you will know your capabilities and you make that call. Some folks can't and some can. Practice is the key with any caliber IMO as shot placement is the deciding factor in most long range kills. Just my 2 cents!

Ethics of LR hunting are not a subject welcome here on this site.

No one can make that decision for you anyhow. We each set our limits based on what we know are our capabilities.

 

[WildRose]

Sorry for being such a deadbeat on my own post but I've been prepping for the late muzzleloader season in PA, I have been keeping up with the replies and there sure are alot of different views. I've tried to keep up with everyones thoughts and look at eachone and have a new plan of attack so to speak.

I realize the 308 is lacking alot when it comes the long range elk department and even not the best for deer. I know that sometimes oportunities arise that you just cant do anything about (that massive bull just one mountain over and your gun cant poke) but as an archery hunter theres a part of me that is driven by the chance to close the distance and the times that things just flat out dont go your way. I know there is always that remedy of the next caliber that may allow you to take that shot and even though I love hearing that boom-pause-thump theres gotta be a limit somewhere. I know I'll probably get alot of flack for saying that on a LR hunt but I realy cant see myself shooting past 1000yds but to me that more just seeing and shooting not too much of my style of hunting.

So back to the actual gun I'm turning towards a 7mm wsm or 7mm SAUM. I would love to just jump to a 300 weatherby or 300 rum but for the sake of the deer I hunt in PA I feel the 7 might be better. My main thinking was that due to still being in the East ill more than likely keep to a 140 or 160 class bullet, where the 7 has a better bc than the .30s. This would still allow me to go out west and have something miles ahead of a .308 and hopefully one day move up to one of the larger 300s or possibly a 338. I know people are still going to push for the bigger 300s but they seem to favor the bigger heavy bullets and I dont see the sense in running a conservative 165 bullet out of something like the 300rum for hunting here at home. Other reasons for the certain caliber choice is how much of a difference is there between short 7s and a longer one such as the stw or rem mag? My idea for the gun has stayed basically the same but now thinking of a 7wsm or saum and possibly in a long action to avoid magazine issues with longer bullets? Am I starting to get warmer with what would be appropriate. Thanks again for everyones input.

Having had to pull myself back from taking a longer shot with an inferior caliber on an absolutely monster class Mulie in Colorado years ago let me give you some advice.

If you think your limit is going to be 600 get enough gun to be confident at 800, if you think 800 will be your absolute limit be prepared for 1,000. Why? Because I guarantee you it's easy to find yourself in such a situation justifying to yourself that you really can make that shot even though it's beyond the reasonable limit you have with the given choice of rifle.

That being said look at the 300 wm or 300wsm. Both are great for deer sized game at any range most of us would consider shooting out to even 1,200yds with the right rig and bullet, and both will get the job done on elk at 800yds with ease.

The other I'd toss in is the .325wsm which is one I'd own for myself in a heartbeat if I didn't already have everything I need.

 

[toddc]

Having had to pull myself back from taking a longer shot with an inferior caliber on an absolutely monster class Mulie in Colorado years ago let me give you some advice.

If you think your limit is going to be 600 get enough gun to be confident at 800, if you think 800 will be your absolute limit be prepared for 1,000. Why? Because I guarantee you it's easy to find yourself in such a situation justifying to yourself that you really can make that shot even though it's beyond the reasonable limit you have with the given choice of rifle.

That being said look at the 300 wm or 300wsm. Both are great for deer sized game at any range most of us would consider shooting out to even 1,200yds with the right rig and bullet, and both will get the job done on elk at 800yds with ease.

The other I'd toss in is the .325wsm which is one I'd own for myself in a heartbeat if I didn't already have everything I need.

Quit tormenting yourself by using the gun guys "N" word. NEED. You may not need that 325 but it'd make a great thread! Seriously tho good advice all around. I like your 200 add for reality. I use 50% so 500 is 750. 1000 will get to 1500 real quick when you start pasting rocks at 1300! It may not happen to everyone but it sure as heck got me!

 

[D.ID]

Got to me too. Success at anything is Addictive.