cohunt
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Best cartrige for long range target and also for Elk hunting.
- Thread starter point_blank65
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point_blank65
Member
Well everyone, I took everyone's opinions into consideration, other than figuring out why belts are/are not an issues lol.
I took a toll of all your suggestions for the more likely cartridges that I would consider l cone up with the 280AI at #1 by 1 more vote, 300 prc and WM tied for 2nd, 7 PRC and RM tied for 4th at only 2 votes from #1, and the 6.8 western at 6th by 2 less votes for 4th place. All very close.
I feel like a should consider the 6.8 western a "7mm" (I know it's not). But with all considered, I think I'm gonna rule out the .30 Cals for reasons of less recoil. Recoil doesn't scare me, but if I wanna make follow up shots then while not go lighter.
Also like I mentioned, I'm pretty set on my gun choice with the bergara. The action is very smooth, they seem to have great quality guns, as do many other manufacturers. But this one feels good in my hands. And with that being said I gotta look at what calibers bergara offers in said gun. Which leaves me with (based on the votes) 7RM, 7PRC.
Vortex nation podcast has a nice comparison of the 2 in a video and the 7RM actually wins based on their criteria. But looking at future reloading, it sounds like the "beltless" casing is easier to work with, can handle pressured of magnum performance. So sounds like the 7prc is my winner.
Can anyone tell me why or if a 280 AI would be a better option and why. And if so what factory rifle would you recommend looking into. With a price range of <$1200.
Thanks again everyone for all your input. It's been very helpful as I was originally thinking 300 prc. (Could still decide that route though
haha)
I took a toll of all your suggestions for the more likely cartridges that I would consider l cone up with the 280AI at #1 by 1 more vote, 300 prc and WM tied for 2nd, 7 PRC and RM tied for 4th at only 2 votes from #1, and the 6.8 western at 6th by 2 less votes for 4th place. All very close.
I feel like a should consider the 6.8 western a "7mm" (I know it's not). But with all considered, I think I'm gonna rule out the .30 Cals for reasons of less recoil. Recoil doesn't scare me, but if I wanna make follow up shots then while not go lighter.
Also like I mentioned, I'm pretty set on my gun choice with the bergara. The action is very smooth, they seem to have great quality guns, as do many other manufacturers. But this one feels good in my hands. And with that being said I gotta look at what calibers bergara offers in said gun. Which leaves me with (based on the votes) 7RM, 7PRC.
Vortex nation podcast has a nice comparison of the 2 in a video and the 7RM actually wins based on their criteria. But looking at future reloading, it sounds like the "beltless" casing is easier to work with, can handle pressured of magnum performance. So sounds like the 7prc is my winner.
Can anyone tell me why or if a 280 AI would be a better option and why. And if so what factory rifle would you recommend looking into. With a price range of <$1200.
Thanks again everyone for all your input. It's been very helpful as I was originally thinking 300 prc. (Could still decide that route though
haha)
fseaman.js
Well-Known Member
Good luck to you. The good thing is that regardless of your decision, they'll all poke holes through the lungs from long distance with some good load workup and practice.
I have had a 280 AI, and I don't know, no offense to anyone who has had good luck with the cartridge, but it just felt a boutique cartridge. Maybe it's because mine was a Christensen???
fseaman.js
Well-Known Member
The neck or shoulder due to thinning. Turns out "migration" is a real thing.
Ultimate Reloader Gavin has done a couple torture tests. Not a Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag but still more telling than any other test.
The only way to prove your assertion is for someone to do the actual work. Otherwise, you are flapping you're yapper. Get on with it and document it to the standard of Ultimate Reloader and publish. Maybe you even get a YouTube channel out of the deal.
BTW: You may need only 1 case, 1 box of 100 bullets and 1 1/2 lb of powder. You can use more if you like but follow Gavin's protocol and see how the first round comes out.
I'd do it but where I live we are still below freezing and that would alter the experiment. 50-70 degrees much better.
Lee Goodwin
Well-Known Member
300 win mag is a good choice. Big case, lots of bullet choices. Old school. Short neck doesn't bother me.
7mm might be better accuracy for BC and heavy bullets vs punishment of heavy bullet loads in the 300.
338 for that big elk, only you didn't list it.
The furtherest I ever shoot is 600.
Welcome to LRH.
7mm might be better accuracy for BC and heavy bullets vs punishment of heavy bullet loads in the 300.
338 for that big elk, only you didn't list it.
The furtherest I ever shoot is 600.
Welcome to LRH.
jfolanddvm
Well-Known Member
Lots of great cartridges have been suggested, but unless other posters know something we don't know, I don't think Bergera wilderness comes in 280AI, 300WSM, 30 Nosler, 338WM, 30-379Bee, etc, etc. I think you came to the right conclusion, although I would not rule out the 6.5 PRC either. I have a friend who a custom rifle maker talked into a 300 PRC. It's a really nice rifle and is very accurate, but even with a good muzzle break or suppressor, it is still more recoil than he wants to absorb (he is fairly new to shooting and doesn't shoot a lot, but has plenty of money to get whatever he would like). He is now ordering a 7 PRC (from another high-end builder
. With your rifle choice and factory ammo, my first choice for your shooting situation would probably be a Wilderness sierra in 6.5 PRC, but the 7 PRC would be a very close 2nd. Their website says they have the 6.5 in a 20 inch barrel, which would be the factor which pushed me in that direction, as I prefer shooting suppressed these days. Although the 300 PRC would be a better dedicated elk caliber, I would have no issues taking one with a 6.5 or 7 PRC within your defined range - esp if you have shot a lot of steel at longer ranges and know where your bullet is going! Good luck and have fun!
AussieWriter
Well-Known Member
I have a 280 Ackley and a 7mm Rem. Choosing one over the other comes down to one single thing:
Do you prefer light to medium weight bullets or the heavyweights.
They are near equals with bullets under 150 grains but once you hit 160 grain and up, the Remington Magnum wins with velocity gains increasing and separating the two as the bullet weight goes up.
That fact eliminates opinion.
Do you prefer light to medium weight bullets or the heavyweights.
They are near equals with bullets under 150 grains but once you hit 160 grain and up, the Remington Magnum wins with velocity gains increasing and separating the two as the bullet weight goes up.
That fact eliminates opinion.
I have been shooting long range (1,200 yards) for over 30 years and have became very proficient out to that distance.
I am in no way handicapping myself by using a handgun, especially with the gun and cartridge that I shoot. 2" groups or less at 300 yards from a bench are the norm, and if I cannot get a good solid rest out in the field, under no circumstance will I pull the trigger!
I'm not the best shooter out there and don't claim to be. I just take great pride in my shooting ability, as well as time taken at the loading bench.
With a 4" mag well, throated and twisted for 230 or 250 A tips or 245 Bergers. COL will be at or over 4". I am currently doing some custom work for one with 245 berger EOL and we are easily getting 3,000 fps with a 28" barrel and N570. Time of flight matters a lot with your wind call. *** in the tank matters for velocity.
My choice for many years has been the 7mmSAUM for most big game hunting that is also target friendly and inherently accurate with good barrel life but I think I should discuss the reasoning behind it and address your 90% target usage and now discuss my latest changes in cartridges.
You may not have a problem with the recoil with the 30 caliber cartridges and quality 30 caliber bullets delivered at good velocities that kill big game animals with amazing regularity and have a very high percentage of DRT type kills BUT....
The damage to your eyes, ears (from muzzle brakes) and shoulder will take its toll through the years and although you might not feel it now, one day you will probably regret not going with something in the 6.5mm range that can deliver bullets that are light by comparison to 30 caliber and yet have very high BC's so they retain their velocity extremely well even at extended ranges and kill way better than we all would have imagined 10 or more years ago.
Ask an orthopedic surgeon what recoil does to your shoulder joint over the years. Ask an ophthalmologist what recoil does to your eyes over the years (I know the answer to that one intimately). Ask an audiologist what muzzle blast does to your hearing over the years (I know the answer to that one intimately as well).
I honestly think that there is no perfect or nearly so cartridge that will be a good choice for 90% target shooting (with reasonable recoil) and yet will hammer elk enough that they won't run off very far or very often. Elk, for their size, are about as tough as any American game animal and they can simply absorb some pretty devastating hits by quality hunting bullets at high velocities and can often simply not be impressed and often will show no or very little reaction to even very well placed said bullets as they walk off seemingly unhurt. Ask a few big game guides about this.
Even the mighty 338 Lapua is no guaranteed elk anchoring cartridge.
In summary, if I were you, I'd consider a 6.5 Creedmoor for your 90% target shooting (very long barrel life) and a 30 caliber magnum cartridge of your choice for elk hunting. In the real world that is a waaaay more practical approach and your body, ears, and eyes will thank you in the long run.
Of course some have opted for the 6.5 Creedmoor for all their medium to large game hunting with surprising results with the advent of the incredibly accurate bullets that have showed up in the last few years and yet they also kill even big game quite well with very good anchoring ability. The Berger 135gr Classic Hunter projectile comes to mind.
Just one man's opinion backed up by many years of floundering around trying to accomplish exactly what you're trying to do.
You may not have a problem with the recoil with the 30 caliber cartridges and quality 30 caliber bullets delivered at good velocities that kill big game animals with amazing regularity and have a very high percentage of DRT type kills BUT....
The damage to your eyes, ears (from muzzle brakes) and shoulder will take its toll through the years and although you might not feel it now, one day you will probably regret not going with something in the 6.5mm range that can deliver bullets that are light by comparison to 30 caliber and yet have very high BC's so they retain their velocity extremely well even at extended ranges and kill way better than we all would have imagined 10 or more years ago.
Ask an orthopedic surgeon what recoil does to your shoulder joint over the years. Ask an ophthalmologist what recoil does to your eyes over the years (I know the answer to that one intimately). Ask an audiologist what muzzle blast does to your hearing over the years (I know the answer to that one intimately as well).
I honestly think that there is no perfect or nearly so cartridge that will be a good choice for 90% target shooting (with reasonable recoil) and yet will hammer elk enough that they won't run off very far or very often. Elk, for their size, are about as tough as any American game animal and they can simply absorb some pretty devastating hits by quality hunting bullets at high velocities and can often simply not be impressed and often will show no or very little reaction to even very well placed said bullets as they walk off seemingly unhurt. Ask a few big game guides about this.
Even the mighty 338 Lapua is no guaranteed elk anchoring cartridge.
In summary, if I were you, I'd consider a 6.5 Creedmoor for your 90% target shooting (very long barrel life) and a 30 caliber magnum cartridge of your choice for elk hunting. In the real world that is a waaaay more practical approach and your body, ears, and eyes will thank you in the long run.
Of course some have opted for the 6.5 Creedmoor for all their medium to large game hunting with surprising results with the advent of the incredibly accurate bullets that have showed up in the last few years and yet they also kill even big game quite well with very good anchoring ability. The Berger 135gr Classic Hunter projectile comes to mind.
Just one man's opinion backed up by many years of floundering around trying to accomplish exactly what you're trying to do.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Go ahead, run the test and prove me wrong…I'm waiting.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Please show me PROOF of this ridiculous statement.
Your ASSUMPTIONS are far from the truth, you simply are trying to use one form of pressure vessel fact against a NON SIMILAR system.
Please go on…
