Best Bigbore brake

[J E Custom]

I still get lots of questions about muzzle brakes, so I went back over this post and read it. To me it was clear, but some still hasn't got it or believe
what some are saying so I will try to clear a few things up if I can.

1= we decided to build a test bed that would give actual recoil. many test beds only compare one brake against the other. We decided we wanted to measure the actual recoil and let the recoil numbers tell how efficient the different designs were. When comparing one brake to another, you are not learning anything about design and the builders philosophy.

2=There are many different ways to compare Brakes, But measuring actual recoil is the most accurate way to prove performance. Comparing one to the other only tells which on the compared brakes was the best performer of the ones compaired, Not which brakes is the best at reducing recoil.

3=There are many Favorite muzzle brakes, because if people buy a particular brand and it noticeably reduces recoil, Then they are happy and in their mind it is the best one/brand. as stated many times, Any muzzle brake will reduce recoil buy some amount, even the cheapest made and the poorest design.

4= My intension was to wade through all of the hype and beliefs and get to the truth about how a muzzle brake actually works and how different changes to design effect the performance. Part of this was to learn the physics of recoil and design accordingly.

5=We also wanted to test using real world conditions and 100% completed and ready to shoot rifles so the recoil numbers were real not just a comparison with other brakes. When done this way, the actual recoil numbers will do the sorting.

6=With a good measuring system, many things can be proven, also many can be disproven and this was the case many times. the test device HAS to be repeatable and give the same results every time.
we did test over a long period of time with a/the same rifle and ammo to verify the consistency and repeatability. It was spot on every time.
Many test methods were not and subject to change with conditions so these were eliminated for testing. Others were good but the percentage of error was 3 to 4% (To much for my needs because they would not measure subtle changes accurately.

All brakes will perform better or worse than others so if you are happy with yours GREAT. If you don't believe the test we perform on video I cant change that. all I can say is there is a lot more to building a good muzzle brake than drilling/milling some holes in a piece of steel (Or worse, casting a muzzle brake).

J E CUSTOM

 

[Don A Parsons]

Glad to see this awesome thread return JE. After watching your videos it give me a whole new respect for what's going on.

Barrel whip is a constant, as you mentioned, the factors that relate to it and what the rifle does once the trigger is pulled.
1/100th of a second if I recall,,, much faster than the blink of the eye.

The wrong set up might not produce the best results,,, I'm back on this path since the time has come.

I seen multi 100's of shooters up here in Western Canada at the ranges this year.
I'm very impressed how well "some" rifles stay "truely" planted."

Its easy to see what's going on now that I've been looking into this.
No so much with the naked eye, more so the targets down range.

Thanks again JE, nothing like getting things sorted before I jump on board.

Don from Western Canada

 

[Capt RB]

This shows the velocities of each shot on the rifle. You have actual movements with like velocities on the same rifle.
Having purchased a beast brake I can say you won't be disappointed in what it does. I can spot my shot below 10 power @100 yds and from 150 and out above that with my creedmoor shooting a 147 at 2965. Rl 26 has really woke up this rifle. his is acutally a faster load than my standard 150gn 270 load. This rifle is also getting a beast and as soon as it's done with the make over I plan to develop a 150 load with 26. Which i suspect should go 3120ish compared to the 2890 it currently runs with H4831

 

[Don A Parsons]

Many many years ago I bought a 7mm -57 Muser that under gone a full custom work over, it came with a top and side port MB on the 18" barrel.

Who ever did the work over on it must of been pretty disappointed,,, perhaps this is why it was up for sale.

We tried all kinds of loads to get that rifle to shoot, nothing seemed to work.

So off come the MB, and bingo, the short little barrel rifle had some kick & barrel jump, at least we were getting "more" consistant groups on the paper, than what it was doing with the "wrong" MB.

We sent the rifle in for a different style MB, and it cleared things. Came at a cost for sure.
Hard to believe that this was almost 30 years ago.

I never touched another brake since.

So here I am today as technology has advanced 3 to 4 times,,, better design with the new CAD systems.
Now that I've seen 100's of these MB rifles in action this year, I'm sold.

If the brake is correct for the rifle & ammo, it will work like a dam.
A few things I don't cheap out on in the firearms world is, the rifle and everything that is attached to it.

Cry once at the cost, but Grin from ear to ear knowing It won't have to address a second time.

Don

 

[Don A Parsons]

Here is another thought that my firearm builder brought up the other day as we "slowly" advance towards my build.

All in rifle profiling.

The way a built is put together, is just as important as a muzzle brake its self.

Kind of that is.

Design is everything.

My builder at one time, was at the top of his competitive game in long distance 1000 yard bench rest, "a limited amount of years",,, then he jumped into the F Class shooting sports shortly after that.

It's was at that point that he brought the 1000 yard bench style rifles to F Class,,, longer barrels in the 32" category,,, extra long F Class wood stocks in the rail format that look like "land Canons."
This was when he started to put many more trophies on the walls,,, he kept this up until he won a spot on the National F Class Canadian team,,, it was his years of being at the top of his game as a Machinist, a few years in BR, and being surrounded by some of the wizest profiling craft persons in the industry.

His own custom built rifle, shooting skills and determinations put him there in the league of the best the world has to offer." Even today he shoots at the top levels of competions.

Again, this is not to take away from this thread,,, it is in context to add to it since "firearms and MB" builds go hand in hand.
Weight & balance points,,, barrel & stock, the materials used to make it up, and the pitch and yaw, "if that's a word."
And the over all lay out.
Of coures there is only so much we can do in that department,,, but the little that does get factored into it all-so assists the MB idea on top of that.

The stock design & recoil pad "is" the spine of our rifles, when properly profiled with length, angle, weigth and materials that makes it up, then it "partly" adds to the benefit of the MB,,, as much as the MB works with the rifle or firearm.

Of course the old saying still stands true,,, best bang for the bucks that show the best results on paper down range.

Address the major areas first, deal with the smaller issues in the mix later on if they are the fault of things that need sorting first.

Example might be:
The rotation of the earth is important, but if ones shooting format or reloading skills are sub-par,,, then the best benefits is addressing those issues first.

In the context of not putting the cart before the horse.

So my build is all about my rifle second since format is first and reloading ammo is third. Each of us pick and choose what needs addressing first.
Funny that my rifle is second,,, how can that be... Simple, if I can't shoot the rifle with consistany in the environment I'm in, then I'm beating a dead horse with a stick,,, If my ammo is better quality then the quality of my rifle "that can't shoot it consistently," then I'm waisting my time once again.

2 things I pay attention to,,, my shooting forum, and consistany of ammo as it "slowly gets tweeked" to make it better.

The rifle build "along with" the muzzle brake will end up shooting 2 to 3 X's better then me the shooter,,, that way it allows me to focus on other things that are more important.

If we get the build right, then free time is on my side.

Don

 

[wbm]

Ross Schuler brakes. Don't understand why people pay the prices they do for muzzle brakes that do not perform any better than Schuler's.

 

[Mike 338]

While not about recoil, I saw on one YouTube example where a gunsmith cut the muzzle threads for the brake and could demonstrate that not leaving enough metal around the hole would cause a type of bowing or enlargement of the bore in the area of the threads. He recommended a 3/4 x 28 thread to prevent this. Any thoughts on this? Also, is there an advantage to a finer thread like a 28 per inch as opposed to a 24 per inch?

 

[J E Custom]

While not about recoil, I saw on one YouTube example where a gunsmith cut the muzzle threads for the brake and could demonstrate that not leaving enough metal around the hole would cause a type of bowing or enlargement of the bore in the area of the threads. He recommended a 3/4 x 28 thread to prevent this. Any thoughts on this? Also, is there an advantage to a finer thread like a 28 per inch as opposed to a 24 per inch?

I do not cut threads for a muzzle brake that reduce the barrel wall (Bore Groove to Minor diameter of the thread) less than .150 each side. (.300 Thousandths.

This has been discussed many times but it is very important to have as much thickness as possible. Here is a link that gives the minimum safe Thread diameter for the barrel size and caliber. Bigger threads are better as long as you leave at least .020 to .030 + thousandths shoulder to seat the brake against.

http://jecustom.com/index.php?pg=Home&cmd=Cell&cell=FAQ
The last list item in FAQ addresses this.

Two small/thin threads can also reduce the bore diameter when the brake is tightened. Some barrels are not heavy enough for threaded brakes and other methods are recommended.

Fine threads can improve the thickness because they are not as deep and add to the minor diameter on same diameter barrels. "But" they must be fit extremely well the take advantage of the thread surfaces and strength.

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Don't understand why people pay the prices they do for muzzle brakes that do not perform any better.

There are many reasons to buy a better brake. Design, performance, Accurate machining, Consistency Brake to brake, And from a gunsmiths point, Ease/cost of installation.

Cheep Brakes are normally cast or use material that Is "Cheep" instead of using barrel steel that Matches the material of your barrel. Also they are normally Tapped instead of threads cut on a lathe or CNC machine. (Taped Threads are by nature slightly tapered and the smith has to fit the barrel tenon threads to the taped threads of the brake, Making for a less than desirable thread fit) and taking more time and money to install.

The reason that some brakes cost more is simple. Better design, better quality, Better materials, And most important, Better performance. In some cases the top end brakes out perform the low end brakes by up to 50%. This difference is not that important on Low recoiling rifles. But when putting a brake on a heavy recoiling rifle that will normally exceed 40+ ft/lbs of recoil without a brake, this quality difference is "Very" important and can turn an unacceptable recoiling rifle into a very pleasurable one.

In out testing, we found a range of recoil reduction from 18% (The poorest) to 74%, with the normal hi end brakes reaching 55 to60%.

I will never divulge the brand of the poorest brakes because that would serve no purpose, and we went to great lengths to prevent name calling or easily identifiable brakes being shone on the test VIDEOs. The only advice I can give is you get what you pay for. If you have a low recoiling rifle the reduction is not that Important. In my mind the material used is. But the quality and precision is very important for accuracy. I have never seen a high end brake hurt accuracy, But the same is not true with cheep brakes for many reasons.

Buy what you want and live with the performance. When you buy/build a custom rifle worth thousandths of dollars, it doesn't make sense to hang a cheep brake on the barrel (Just like a cheep scope).

This is just My opinion and it is not intended to criticize any brand of muzzle brake. it is just to explain the difference between a cheep brake and a expensive brake in terms of performance and quality.

J E CUSTOM

 

[middleofnowhere]

This is such an interesting subject to me, thank you everyone for posting. This is one of the better videos i've seen on youtube comparing brakes.



I currently have a Christensen factory radial brake, the reduction in felt recoil is amazing. I haven't compared to anything else. The dirt it kicks up when I shoot prone is annoying, so i will likely purchase a side baffle brake before next season. Research on this is a lot of fun for sure. Weight and size of the brake will be some of the things i consider as my rifle is for backpack hunting.

I'm curious what thoughts there are on going with a lighter metal such as titanium?

 

[Don A Parsons]

I agree on the cost aspects.

Each person gets to pick and choose what works with in their budget, nothing wrong with this idea since it allows for best bang per buck.

I for one would never go down that road.
The barrels I run are in the $500 Cnd funds, I would never buy a budget MB.

I'm after precision on paper & critters down range, the benefits of consistency is key in short & long range shooting.

Here's my take on costs.

My F Class 308 dosen't need a MB since its 18.5 lbs with a 32" Bull barrel,,, its stays well planted.

The 30/06 I'm building should scale in at 8.5 lbs all in, the barrle is getting shorten from 26" to 22" then add the MB.

It is a heavy barrel, but I need to tame it down, normally I use this rifle for the 100 to 600 meter shots,,, but when I jump into PRS it might be wize to have pin point accuracy.
Again if I'm footing the bill, it is worth my while to reap the rewards down range.

Yes, I could buy a different rifle with a smaller case & caliber that would be easier to use,,, but I'm a 30 caliber dude that's not ready for change.

In fact, I'm thrilled to push the 30/06 category since it has served our family for 117 years and the 178gr & 185gr bullets fly like a dam out of these tame cases.

My job is to get them down range with consistency and precision.

Don

PS:So I shoot 2500 to 3000 rounds out of this rifle per season.
Let's say $400/ by 2750 = $ 0.01 and 1/2 cents per shot.

The longer I use it the less it cost me over the long hual

 

[Alex Wheeler]

To date the most effective I have used are the Muzzle brakes and more Beast brakes. I have used quite a few different brakes. Some of the cheaper ones are machined so poorly I have just sent them back to the customer. Some have been mentioned in this post. As far as a cheap brake that I have used tons of and will continue to use that are always machined square even if they do need some work to clean up are the Harrell's precision brakes. I like what I am seeing from JE and I will be ordering an assassin brake to try on a 30-28 Nosler build that will be coming up soon.

 

[J E Custom]

I'm curious what thoughts there are on going with a lighter metal such as titanium?[/QUOTE]

The purpose of using "Like" materials is simple, it matches the barrel in everyway. Different materials have Different coefficients of expansion that can cause the brake to come loose. Also Dissimilar materials can galled when place together in tight fitting threads, And the weight of a brake actually dampens barrel harmonics. Titanium is strong enough but it is one of those materials that tend to loosen after a shooting session.

When a muzzle brake is made out of the same material as the barrel most of the problems go away including finishing the barrel and brake to look the same.

The only exception I have when doing Stainless to Stainless is the need to use a anti seize on the threads to prevent gaulding. I prefer to use it on All muzzle brake installations, in the event I need to remove it for cleaning. Powder and cleaning solvents can Lock the brake on the barrel to never be removed.

There is basically nothing wrong with the Titanium brakes them selves, I just feel it is a poor choice of material for muzzle brakes and the weight savings is not worth the other things Mentioned.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Rich Coyle]

First let me say I am a wannabe mechanic. Therefore I don't know much. In fact I often tell people my strong suite is ignorance. Never the less, I have made and tested several brakes from steel and aluminum in my recoil slide. I now use aluminum exclusively to save weight. The one on the dark rifle is painted the same color as the barrel. The other is stainless so it stays natural. I use blue lock-tight on them just like I do on scope mount screws.