Berger vs ELDX on steel

[snox801]

I was shooting the ballistic tops not accubonds.

 

[haftime]

I'm an engineer by trade but I don't have a lot of info on your setups. I'd say tip design is a big factor. You have a plastic tip where as his tip is copper. Essentially, your bullet is striking the target and is being slowed down and prematurely expanded by the plastic tip as it crushes against the plate. By the time your tip has collapsed to reach the jacket your bullet has a decent sized surface area upon which its energy is transferred into the plate. His bullet has a solid tip and a much smaller surface area when striking the plate. That's the key to defeating armor, steel, etc. You need the necessary energy behind a high density, hard material that is adequately focused in order to penetrate. Copper is hardly a good material for armor penetration but in this case it's penetrating mild steel with a very high velocity and a decent amount of momentum. That's why M855 is very good at penetrating lower grades of armor. It's very fast, and has a fine point on a solid jacket with a steel core.

Thank you

 

[haftime]

It's not just speed if you were shooting Accubonds. Those things punch AR500 better than anything else I have shot. I haven't used bergers though. My 3/8" AR500 plate stopped everything I shot at it from a 240 Weatherby, until I lit it up with the Accubonds.

Tony

I use Accubonds but never shot steel with them. I'll be sure and try it with my buddies targets lol.

 

[haftime]

Have you done calculations to see what the speed at the target was with both bullets? My 7 mag punches holes in 1/2 are plate at 250 yards just because of the speed.
Speed kills when it cones to shooting steel

We didn't have the velocity at target, kinda assumed there wasn't too much difference. Good point.

 

[cajun]

Good thing critters aren't made of steel lol.

 

[308win]

Shooting 7PRC with a buddy at his homemade steel target and noticed his Bergers cut neat holes thru the steel (640 yds) while my ELDX barely dented it. At 900 yds the Bergers dented the steel and the ELDX just smeared. Not a large velocity difference and bullet mass was close. Is there something in the bullet construction that causes this? Thanks

This just can't be! We all know Bergers blow up on shoulders

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Shooting 7PRC with a buddy at his homemade steel target and noticed his Bergers cut neat holes thru the steel (640 yds) while my ELDX barely dented it. At 900 yds the Bergers dented the steel and the ELDX just smeared. Not a large velocity difference and bullet mass was close. Is there something in the bullet construction that causes this? Thanks

BERGERS are, Extremely TOUGH Bullets and I First noticed it, myself several Years ago when, I shot my 5/16 inch Dia., Steel, Target Frame, in 1/2 with, a 140 gr Classic hunter Bullet at almost, 3,200 FPS MV. at,.. 600 Yards !!!
This, Bullet "can" also Shoot Through, a Bull Elk's shoulders ( complete Pass Thru,.. IF, not too, Far away !

 

[Phil Rizzo]

This would be the very first occasion I recall a Berger bullet being described as "tough".

Are the "classic hunters" different from EH's concerning jacket thickness or construction?
I realize the HT is heavier built than EH, jacket-wise.

Through a bull elk's shoulders? Assuming no major size bone contact that's still quite a feat. Most Berger shooters seem to avoid the shoulder, for a reason.

I guess a plugged tip could make it pierce and keep on going in meat though.

 

[shaughn]

The OTM Tactical line from Berger are in their own literature built with thicker jackets to better handle the rougher conditions of tactical and competition use.

From use I know early Lapua Scenar are hard on steel and reactive targets.

All the steel I have shot in the last decade has not been my responsibility and so have not been able to inspect, and has been shot with Sierra or Lapua .

 

[Idaho Lefty]

@ Phil,..
NO plugged Tip's ( My Cart's are always, in Magazines, and CLEAN, in Plastic, homemade pouches ) the .270 WSM, 140 gr. Classic Hunters at, 3,173 FPS ave. MV,.. shot was, @ 115 yds ( Impact Vel.,.. 3,000+ FPS )
Shooting, was off Stix, kneeling and over Sagebrush, so,.. High Shoulder, Shot. (pulled Trigger,. Hooves, in Air )
Found Base of bullet Tangled in Far side Hair ( upper Lungs "Scrambled" ) 2 inch exit, minimum, meat loss,..

 

[Idaho Lefty]

People either,. LOVE or, HATE,. Berger's as, Lots of, Controversy and some CONFUSION ( Some use, VLD Target, Bullets and GET,. "Penciling" ! ).
I studied reviews, back when, I bought, the .270 WSM for Elk Bullets and most Hunters, urged me to use, the 140 gr. AccuBonds.
Killed an Elk ( Boiler Room shot, @ 65 yds ) in northern Arizona with One and, he literally walked around for what seemed like, TWO Minutes, before Collapsing !
I jacked another Round in and My son said,.. "Don't shoot, dad,. he's Done",
That Bullet Clipped, far shoulder and was just under, the Hide with, a TINY,.. "Mushroom" !
I'm STAYING with, Bergers ! Yup,.. a SMALL "sample size",.. BUT,.. High Velocity and Fragmenting Bullets,.. kill Chit,.. DRT !
Ole' Roy Weatherby, KNEW "this" chit, a LONG Time, ago with, His .270 Wby, and 130's going,. ,3,200- 3,300 FPS

 

[Idaho Lefty]

The UPPER shoulder Blade area on, an Elk, AIN'T,. that,.. "Thick"
I have NO reason to,.. change Bullets
Agree that, a center Punched, shoulder shot,.. might "HamBurger up", some,.. extra Meat

 

[Mike D Texas]

@ Phil,..
NO plugged Tip's ( My Cart's are always, in Magazines, and CLEAN, in Plastic, homemade pouches ) the .270 WSM, 140 gr. Classic Hunters at, 3,173 FPS ave. MV,.. shot was, @ 115 yds ( Impact Vel.,.. 3,000+ FPS )
Shooting, was off Stix, kneeling and over Sagebrush, so,.. High Shoulder, Shot. (pulled Trigger,. Hooves, in Air )
Found Base of bullet Tangled in Far side Hair ( upper Lungs "Scrambled" ) 2 inch exit, minimum, meat loss,..

I was getting the same results with Berger VLDH bullets up until just after they sold to capstone. I don't know if they changed a processes but I started NOT getting pass throughs even with mild cartridges like 308 Win on small body Texas whitetail.

 

[Buttermilk]

My brother shot thru 1/2" mild steel using his 300 RUM with a 220 ELDX bullet that started out at 3100 fps. Impact at 105 yards put a 3/4" hole in the steel. Steel showed signs of bullet expanding upon impact.