Not trying to be cranky here but have you used A-max's in a hunting scenario? They don't blow up at 1000 fps, not even 2000 fps. Yes, they loose some of their weight but those pieces are doing the damage that I like in a hunting bullet. Similar to what the Berger's do but will expand at lower velocities and still have excellent BC's.
Berger VLD .308 168grn minimum speed for hunting???
- Thread starter squeeeeze
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Not trying to be cranky here but have you used A-max's in a hunting scenario? They don't blow up at 1000 fps, not even 2000 fps. Yes, they loose some of their weight but those pieces are doing the damage that I like in a hunting bullet. Similar to what the Berger's do but will expand at lower velocities and still have excellent BC's.
From my field testing on soft medium.
All of the BTHP match bullets expand Ok above 1800 fps.
Some of the new Hornady thick jacket HPBT match bullets do not at 1600 fps.
SMK's are good down to 1600 but that's about it.
Bergers I have tested were good at 1600.
Hornady Interbonds were good down to 1300fps.
All of the BTHP match bullets expand Ok above 1800 fps.
Some of the new Hornady thick jacket HPBT match bullets do not at 1600 fps.
SMK's are good down to 1600 but that's about it.
Bergers I have tested were good at 1600.
Hornady Interbonds were good down to 1300fps.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
No I don't use them for hunting because Hornady says don't do that.
Instead I use the interlock and interbond which also have very high BC's and perform outstanding on any game retaining 75-95% of their mass whether you are shooting a deer or a monster boar.
With the Amax you are lucky to retain 50% on a deer and it will not go through a big hog.
The amount of hdrostatic shock is directly proportional to the velocity and mass exiting the wound channel. Less mass = less hydrostatic shock.
I don't like to see a fist sized hole or bigger on the backside, I want to see an exit wound the size of a quarter to fifty cent piece at most and I definitely want a complete pass through.
The Amax is just too much like the old original ballistic tips from Nosler but with an even thinner jacket. I saw far too many of them not exit deer and hogs.
I have shot them in the 7mm STW and even at 500 yards when I hit a coyote with them at the midline they tend to cut them in half. Great target bullet. Great varmint bullet if you don't want to salvage hides. Just not a hunting bullet.
Bullett manufacturers spend a tremendous amount of time and money developing bullets. I tend to pay attention when they say "don't do that".
Last edited:
The Interbonds surprised me. I would have figured they would have required 1800ish. Good to know.
They surprised me too.
Its actually hard to shoot them at a speed slow enough where they won't show at least some expansion. If they would come out with a few heavy weight .30 and .338 calibre bullets they would turn a few heads.
So have you tested the A-max's? Are they included in your BTHP category? I have had really good luck with them expanding at lower velocities at least in 30 cal.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
They are designed that way. Look at a cut out of them. The Jacket is very thin at the front and gets progressively thicker. The Polymer tip gurantees that expansion is going to start at even low speeds and the same jacket design keeps them from shedding much of their mass even at very high speeds as it thickens from tip to ogive.
Sierra says that about their SMK's but my guess is that they are one of the most popular bullets here on LRH. Not trying to change your mind or argue but there ARE bullets that may not be suggested by manufacturers to the typical hunter but are in fact very good bullets for long range. The point you make about them opening up so easy due to their tip and thin upper jacket is the exact reason why they make a good long range bullet IMO.
I would argue a bit with your definition of hydrostatic shock but will save that for another day.
For me, perfect bullet performance is a bullet that fragments and destroys major tissue along the path, with the base of the bullet opening up a hole on the far side with just enough weight and momentum to drop out of the animal. Different strokes for different folks. Every animal is different and every shot is different so it takes all kinds. Heck, I have never hunted hogs so I am sure my ideal bullet for that kind of shooting may be more about making sure I get proper penetration, keeping those big tusks away from my hiney!
Last edited:
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The problem is that you can't guarantee your shots will be at long range. Look at the hunting stories right here "Well I spent two years getting ready to kill my elk, moose, deer, antelope etc at 1,000yds and I shot this one at 125".Sierra says that about their SMK's but my guess is that they are one of the most popular bullets here on LRH. Not trying to change your mind or argue but there ARE bullets that may not be suggested by manufacturers to the typical hunter but are in fact very good bullets for long range. The point you make about them opening up so easy due to their tip and thin upper jacket is the exact reason why they make a good long range bullet IMO.
I would argue a bit with your definition of hydrostatic shock but will save that for another day.
For me, perfect bullet performance is a bullet that fragments and destroys major tissue along the path, with the base of the bullet opening up a hole on the far side with just enough weight and momentum to drop out of the animal. Different strokes for different folks. Every animal is different and every shot is different so it takes all kinds. Heck, I have never hunted hogs so I am sure my ideal bullet for that kind of shooting may be more about making sure I get proper penetration, keeping those big tusks away from my hiney!
I understand your definition of good terminal performance. The trouble is I've seen too many animals run a very long way after being shot with such bullets.
It just makes no sense to me to use a bullet with inferior terminal ballistics when there are better bullets around that still have very high BC's and are capable of great accuracy.
I don't mean to come off as a know it all but I have killed literally hundreds of deer and big hogs, and 24 Antelope in my life and I've experimented a great deal with most of the popular bullets and quite a few that aren't so popular.
More often than not people tend to "go with the crowd" even when the crowd is going the wrong way because "hey, the can't all be wrong can they?".
I shot a lot of SMK's many years ago. I found bullets that consistently performed better, and I've seen too many bad results from hunters using various target/varmint bullets for deer and larger sized game.
In the last thirty years I've probably spent a couple of thousand hours picking the brains of the guys at Hornady, Norma, Nosler, and Swift and I've found more often than not when they tell me something it's right so I tend to follow there advice and have had good results because of it.
If you can put it through the spine or heart every time you're going to get a lot of one shot kills on most game with just about any bullet, but reality gets in the way far too often and we then have the bullet striking such that it doesn't quite hit the heart or spine and that's when having the right bullet for the job really matters.
I can't guarantee that every shot is going to be in excess of 800yds, in fact all too often they'll be between 350-500 and everything I shoot runs better than 2900fps at the muzzle so I pick bullets that are going to perform at any range with consistent results.
So far the best of those bullets are the Sirocco, the Interbond, and the Interlock, with the Interlock being my go to bullet for about the last 25 years on thick, heavy, dense bodied critters and the interlock on everything else. My limited experience with the Sirocco so far tells me it offers the best characteristics of both of those bullets but I'll see after a put a few deer down with them over the next couple of months. I'm already convinced they are the ideal bullet on big hogs which means I can expect similar results on Elk.
