Berger to introduce 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting Bullet

[Swamplord]

I just talked to Bob at EOL about them and he said the bearing surface is .504 compared the .459 for the 180 Hybrid and .462 for the 168. I'm going to order some to make a dummy round for my 7-338 Norma Imp. reamer and see what I come up with for a throat. I may just order my normal 168 throat (.188") and seat them in the case a bit further.

IdahoCTD
Just to give you an idea of what I did ....to help you crunch your numbers .........

For my 7mm Long Range Hunter wildcat (7mm/338 Norma Imp 37*) I had Kiff do .253" for the throat, (2.9905" from bottom of case head) with the 180 gr Berger Hybrid seated to base of neck with just the boat tail hanging into the case my cartridge oal is 3.507" as seen in pic below, and I have light contact with rifling...... I developed this cartridge with the 195 gr bullet in mind but did not have bullet dimensions to work with and based it on the 180 gr Hybrid seated with zero impact on case capacity (108.5 gr h20) figuring that the 195 gr will be about perfect for this throat set up and cartridge oal, and if the 195 wasn't gonna happen I could still run the 180's ....... the 175 gr Ablr also works perfectly for this throat .......

 

[Broz]

I am sure others have a better more accurate way to measure these bullets. But I will share my measurements using two hornaday bushing type comparitors on a caliper.

Bearing surface of the 195's .6665" of the 180 Hybrids .586"

base of boat tail to ojive 195's .861 of the 180 Hybrids .776"

OAL 195 , 1.6202" 180 hybrid 1.586"

These were sample of 6 of each and the average.

Jeff

 

[IdahoCTD]

It's funny. I just measured a 230 target and the measurements are almost the same as yours Broz. I came up with .665 bearing surface and 1.662 OAL. That's only about .020 longer but the bearing surface is identical. .What is also funny is that the 215 and 230 are basically the same measurement from the bottom of the bullet to where my comparitor measures. So it looks like they squished a 230 to 7mm. I run a .235" throat in my 30-338 Norma Imp and it's a bit short for 230 and a bit long for 215's so I bet Swamplords throat would be about ideal for 195's. I got mine ordered so I will verify things when I get them.

My version is a 35* shoulder but it sounds just about the same as yours Swamplord. Did you lengthen the neck or keep it with the same shoulder/body dimension and then neck it down?

 

[mrb1982]

I feel the excitement building! We have all been waiting for this bullet for a long time. There was a lot of "urban myth" type banter up to this point. Now all this conversation becomes real. Woohoo

I am interested in anything anyone comes up with for a 7/300 win mag wildcat for this bullet. I think this is going to be a fantastic bullet for specifically the bigger 7's.

 

[Broz]

I am interested in anything anyone comes up with for a 7/300 win mag wildcat for this bullet. I think this is going to be a fantastic bullet for specifically the bigger 7's.

Yep I agree, until that .8 30 cal comes out that IdahoCTD just heard about. Now there is a game changer !!! LOL...

Or a 325 gr .338 with a .9 BC...gun)gun)

Good shooting guys!

Jeff

 

[jett]

So what is the correct overall length of the 195 Berger as this is a large factor in determining proper twist and full stabilization.

Phil (Barefooter) of Berger said 1.648:

Go to our website and use the twist rate calculator under the BALLISTICS tab on our home page.
Some dimensions you will need are :
G1 BC =.755 ( 1500-3000 fps)
G7 BC = .387 ( use this , not G1)
BULLET OAL = 1.648
Be sure to enter the ALTITUDE ! This can be found on the NOAA website. Use the zip code to find. __________________
Take care!
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullets Tech




Extreme Outer limits says 1.62:

Technical Information

• Caliber: 284, 7mm
• Bullet Diameter: .284"
• Bullet Weight: 195 Grains
• Bullet Style: Hybrid Elite Hunting Hollow Point Boat Tail
• Bullet Length: 1.620
• Recommended Twist: 1-8.3"
• Bullet Coating: Non-Coated

Broz says 1.6202:

OAL 195 , 1.6202" 180 hybrid 1.586"

These were sample of 6 of each and the average.

Jeff

When you are at sea level like me and you plug these numbers into the Berger Twist Rate Stability Calculator, it makes a difference.

Thanks,
Jett

 

[IdahoCTD]

For a OAL I would believe the answer I got from people that have them in hand.

Bob found a drawing to tell me the bearing surface rather than measuring it. Most likely since the bearing surface to nose transition is so gradual measuring it with a .010+" under caliber a comparator will be off a good deal. At the same time the boattail to bearing surface isn't a straight angle. There is a pretty good radius and that throws a comparator measurement off too.

I have 2 7-300wm's that I will try to sling a few with. Mine are 9 twist so they may not do very well but I'll try it out. I think R-33 will be a good powder for them and I have a good amount of it. I'll have a 8" twist Kreiger tomorrow for the 7-338 Norma Imp. Now I need bullets and a reamer but the reamer is only 6 weeks from JGS once I get the bullets.

Like Broz I was actually more excited about the 6.5mm and 30 cal bullets I heard about today then this 195 but I ordered a 8 twist 7mm barrel back in April so it moves to the head of the line. I have way more 6.5 and 30 caliber rifles and components than 7mm.

 

[mrb1982]

I agree that 30 cal would make me salivate pretty heavily.

When you get those loaded up in the 7/300, I am not as worried about hearing about the group size as much, since they are 9 twist. I would really like to here what you come up with for COAL for the purpose of fitting the in even an extended mag box. These puppies are gonna be long ole beasts. Secondly, curious what kind of velocities you come up with.

I don't really "need" a 245gr bullet for anything, and I have always been a 7mm fan I guess. I guess what I like about this bullet is that with a 7/300 or STW, you can get a pretty flat shooting wind bucking machine without having to shoot a 338 of some sort. Pretty excited.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I agree that 30 cal would make me salivate pretty heavily.

When you get those loaded up in the 7/300, I am not as worried about hearing about the group size as much, since they are 9 twist. I would really like to here what you come up with for COAL for the purpose of fitting the in even an extended mag box. These puppies are gonna be long ole beasts. Secondly, curious what kind of velocities you come up with.

I don't really "need" a 245gr bullet for anything, and I have always been a 7mm fan I guess. I guess what I like about this bullet is that with a 7/300 or STW, you can get a pretty flat shooting wind bucking machine without having to shoot a 338 of some sort. Pretty excited.

Well, the myth has been ordered... By next weekend I'll be tossing a couple of boxes of 195gr 7mm bergers on my loading bench to work with. Not sure if I'll use the ww 7mmstw I have open or blow out some rp 375 H&H brass for the occasion... We'll see... I knew I hung the 8" twist on my 7stw for a reason.


As to a heavy 30, I'll need a faster twist barrel than 10" twist correct?? If so, I'll need to order a Shilen 8" twist for the 300 rum when she croaks.



I really don't care about a heavier 338 at present; my only 338 is a 338win (ruger #1) and she struggles a bit with 250's already... I played with 285 hdy pills last year and the only loads that shot well would be dangerous in most actions.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well, just ordered my 3 boxes of 195's from The Extreme Store.

I doubt there's any way to get them to stabilize in my STW's with the current barrels that are on them, but when I do have to re-barrel, I will be going with a 1:8 twist so they will be able to shoot them.

Figured it was better to go ahead and get them now while they're available.

 

[mrb1982]

Do you think that the plug on my RCBS 7mm seating die is going to be deep enough for these bullets or am I going to have to do some modifications? Or is there an after market seater plug of some sort I am going to need?

 

[Edd]

I was expecting some reports about accuracy and velocity by now.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I was expecting some reports about accuracy and velocity by now.

I really don't think there are that many people set up with 8 twist barrels. Many people did it initially 3 years ago but I doubt the rest ran out to build a 8 twist on the premise that they were going to release them this summer when we heard that before. I ordered a barrel in April but I wasn't getting carried away until I could actually buy some. I think you'll see some velocity numbers from 9 twist barrels but the accuracy probably won't be there for most people unless they are at high elevation. EOL only got the bullet in the start of last week too so unless the people got them for early testing there probably isn't a lot of people with the bullets in hand.

 

[bigngreen]

They have been shooting the 195 in a few matches, there shooting very well. Some have shot them from 9 and 8.5 twists and they shot very well but with a little elevation. Some team Berger members are running them on 7mm-300 WSM's in comp guns, sounded like accuracy was as good or better than the 180's so far.