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Berger Hybrid bullets

Guys,

Thanks for all the questions! I will just reflect on my direct experience with the Hybrid designed bullets over the last three months of hunting so that I do not mis-state anything, or give fairy tell success stories.

I have been using the 338's for a while now like everyone else. I much preferred the gen 1 bullets to the gen 2, simply for the jacket thickness. Now this will soon be meaningless with the new hybrid hunting bullets on the way. So the question was, did I think the hybrids performed like the VLD's? At first I was skeptical that it was the design of a VLD that made it work so well. But after being able to fire a whole bunch of hybrids into animals, I now no longer have that opinion. It clearly is the alloy mixture that make Berger Bullets work every time. Plus obviously the ability to retain their velocity doesn't hurt!

For the hunts I have been on this year so far, a bear hunt, Barbary sheep, 3 stags, 2 fallow, Thar, Chamios, feral goat, arrapaw sheep, over 20 wallabies, and over 70 free range goats. The bullets of choice for these hunts/tests were all 30 cal stuff in the 185, to 230 grain offerings. We used our EOL/McMillan Rifles in 300. All the animals died on the first shot, except one fallow, and one stag that I hit to far back. They were dead on there feet, but I hurried and put a second one in them to make sure. Now to far back meaning hips, and rump, to far back. Everything that clipped the guts fell right down, and still died almost immediately. The rump shots were due to either I fouled up on the wind for a hurried shot, or did not read their body language correct at the shot and they turned in flight time.

For the 230 I am using so far it has been the target. Not that the jacket is any different then the OTM, just the nose design for a little higher B.C. Now one important thing I would like to mention, is that I noticed the 230 traveling 3000 fps out of my 26" bbl took away some of my concerns about the thicker jackets. I was apprehensive at first from working with the thicker jacketed 338 bullets traveling 2800 fps and slower. But now seeing how velocity was able to manipulate how the bullet performed in our tests, that has gone away. I feel the hybrid design is a solid winner for guys who want the VLD performance without the critical seating depth headache, and in the new hunting jackets, there are going to be off the charts incredible, I'm sure of it...
 
so correct me if i am wrong but the hunting Hybrids will have thinner jackets? If so i will stick with target bullets for my 6-284 as i read the thinner jacketed hunting VLDs wont take the velocity
 
Yes, the hunting hybrids will have a thinner jacket then the OTM, or Target bullets...

I am not sure how fast you are running those 6mm bullets? But I have ran the hunting VLD's in other calibers to 3600 fps with no issues at all. But I will clearly state that it was never through rapid succession or a hot bbl. Always just in hunting conditions with 3-5 shot strings.
 
hoping to push them 3200-3400 range. id just read that the fast twist and those velocities unravel them. iv ran the 87gr VLD in my Dtesh 243wssm AR to 3500+ in a 10 twist just fine with superb accuracy
 
I can only speak from my experiences. But it seems a bit crazy to me that at even 3400 fps any of those 6mm bullets would be coming apart. However if some guys on here have had that happen to them, It surely is possible. I am just thinking I would like to know a bit more information as to how it happened and how it was confirmed? But to be safe you could just give both the target, and hunting bullets a try.

Either way in the end, our experience with the hybrid designed bullets has been nothing but positive. The fact that Berger has addressed any concerns with bullet integrity by making them in two different jacket thickness, is a bonus!
 
I can only speak from my experiences. But it seems a bit crazy to me that at even 3400 fps any of those 6mm bullets would be coming apart. However if some guys on here have had that happen to them, It surely is possible. I am just thinking I would like to know a bit more information as to how it happened and how it was confirmed? But to be safe you could just give both the target, and hunting bullets a try.

Either way in the end, our experience with the hybrid designed bullets has been nothing but positive. The fact that Berger has addressed any concerns with bullet integrity by making them in two different jacket thickness, is a bonus!

When are more hybrids coming out?
 
I am not completely sure when and how the hybrids will be hitting the shelves. But I can tell you from what I hear, and the conversations I am involved With, that in the upcoming months there will be more hybrids in different calibers coming down the pipe!

I will surely be posting results and updates on what I am able to get my hands on, and send down the bbl!!!
 
When I built my 6mm-284 it was for the 115 DTACs. I really thought they would shoot. It was reported by several shooters that the 115 Berger VLD would not withstand much more than 3250 or so.

Here is one quote I put in my files. Remember this is with a 1 in 7.5 twist that is needed tto stabilize a 115.

"115 Bergers in a 6 groove 1-8 twist, 30 inch barrel I can get them to 3250 -3260 fps not any more than that as they blowup"

From EDDYBO on 24 hr:

:"Forget the 115 bergers the d-tacs are the only 115 that will hold together as far as I know. Your max load is probably going to fall around 51grs of vv560 depending on how your rifle is throated. I was able to get in the 3250 range with good case life. I have some vv570 on hand and suspect that if I could stuff enough in that case that better velocities could be had."

Anothetr quote:
" Just a couple more things to think about. you mentioned in your first post that you had a stainless 1-8" twist 6mm barrel but you did not mention how many grooves, if it is a 5 or 6 groove barrel you can make anything you want out of it. on the other hand if it is a 3 groove you will be disappointed if you go with a 6mm-284 or a 6-06 because after a couple hundred rounds you will start to get bullet blow-up. I have a 6mm-284 3 groove with several hundred rounds through it and the only bullet it will shoot with out blow-up is the 107gr SMK. I also have a 6AI that is a 6 groove that has no problems with bullet blow-up."


Do a lengthy search and you can read more.

FYI my 257 Weatherby 1 in 10 twist 3 groove begain destroying 115 VLDs at round count 700.
 
Azshooter,

Looks like you have found a couple accounts of the 6mm's blowing up. I know I asked for that info! What this info really does is make me want to understand why this has happened in these two cases? I have been doing tutorial work for Berger lately, and have had information provided to me to help me work through these. The information I have been given for these types of situation revolve around heat and friction. Both cases mentioned here would go against this. At least in the one instance, it states it has happened after several shots. The friction in the barrel would have been less then the first hundred shots fired. So just trying to work around this in my head, were the bullets in the barrel to long with to much twist? Maybe was this after a bunch of consecutive shots, and really hot barrel? Maybe something to be learned here?

Shoot me back what your thoughts are?
 
Bob,

I didn't see any mention of number of shots. I don't hear of many guys using a 6mm-284 as a 1000 yd bench rifle. One exception also from my documents file is this:

Randy Derks world record 6 targets 7" @ 1000 YDS
54 grains of Reloader 22 - Federal 210m primer - Sierra 107 grain Match King bullet - 3425 fps


Now he had to be shooting at least a few sighters and five for record if it was a light gun.

Another from files:

115 Bergers in a 6 groove 1-8 twist, 30 inch barrel I can get them to 3250 -3260 fps and not hardly any more. They are right on the raggedy edge of blowing up and on a really hot summer day I start losing them. I just don't shoot on really hot days anymore.


Another:
If you want to shoot heavy bullets go ahead and begin with the 107g Sierra MK. By no means is it a good varmint bullet (especially at ranges in excess of 500 yards as it will pencil through) but it will hold together at speeds in excess of 3500 fps. The bergers will also come apart around 3200-3300 fps which again pretty much rules them out. This is one reason why I have settled on the 87g VMAX's.


I did searches on LRH, 24 hr and 6mm.BR.com for over a week when time permitted. Hope some of these help.

Ross
 
I am a huge fan of Berger bullets and the amount of terminal damage they do on coyotes. I have on my bench now .17, .22, .243 ( 5 different styles), .264, and .277 Bergers and soon to have 200 6mm Hybrids. So i am by no means dissapointed in them but i am sure going to test them and run them hard out of my 8 twist 27'' Benchmark Barrel
 
You can vaporize most any Berger hunting VLD, the 130's don't work in my WSM and the 140's I have to stay under 3350fps or they loose it.
Kirby knows about where most of the cal vaporize Berger hunting bullets!!
 
Well guys, you clearly are more knowledgable then I am in these smaller caliber configurations. I have always been a heavy for caliber guy, and that is where I have more experience with the Berger's. I will however see if I cannot get some more info from Berger directly about this situation, and offer some input if I come up with anything of value. I do have to say that I just have not had these issues with the VLD's personally. I even had a 7mm AM of my own and pushed the hell out of the 180's, and 168's. But never the less that still isn't these small 6mm's.

Headed to Africa in two days! Will be shooting some more of the heavier hybrids over there! Will hopefully have some great success stories when I return!

Take care till then.
 
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