Berger Bullet QA/QC

[robert l]

I am reloading for a new to me 6.5 SAUM with a Stiller Predator Action. I received very little specifics from the seller and the builder. Rifle came with bullets and Whidden dies including a micrometer seating die.

I experienced bullet runout (both COAL and CBTO variations) causing me to measure and sort the bullets themselves. They are Berger Hybrid Target 140 gr. Lot P0785. Out of 52 pieces, 28 weighed 140.0 and 24 140.1.

Out of the 28 140.0's, bullet base to ogive range from 0.719 to 0.723. Some are ones and twos. A couple measurements have more than most. So, I checked the 0.720 BBTO and found a bullet overall length range from 1.402 to 1.417.

I've never sorted bullets and brass before. With very little published data and a lack of information with the rifle, I started from scratch. Headed for a max COAL of 2.880. Magazine is an Accurate 300 WSM. Its' opening measures 2.983. While in the 2.910 thru 2.920 range, the loaded bullets chambered without issue. However while cycling loaded rounds out of the magazine, bullet tips catch on the action and will not feed into the chamber. Even at 2.88, they are catching. I got one to feed after firing a round. The picture depicts the mag well and the action where catching.

I will gladly take any general advice. A couple questions ....

1) Are the variations to be expected with these long bullets?
2) What COAL are others using? I know CBTO is the more important measurement. I plan to send two fire formed brass to Hornady.


View attachment 147715

I noticed that the feed ramp is not polished.I have had a few stiller actions and they all came with polished feed ramps.

 

[cjl2010]

As in notch the action?? I can see where that could help. I'm in communication with the seller who is supposed to provide me with the COAL he was using. I asked the smith if he can confirm the build if I provided the S/N. He said no. Really no help at all from the smith.

Yup, the extended mags put the tip of the bullet underneath the feed ramp. As you cycle bolt it slides the rounds underneath forward and they get caught under the ramp and don't put up into place.

 

[rogerstv]

Agree with the feed ramp issue. Thank you for all the replies.

Seller supposed to send me the COAL he was using. He says gave great accuracy.

Second step is to get a modified case from Hornady and measure the lands. Will try the crkckr method too.

If all else fails, I will check with a smith about grooving the action feed ramp. Sure would be a shame not to take advantage of the extended magazine length.

 

[crkckr]

It looks to me - and this could be way off from just one picture! - as though the follower is pushing the cartridge into a nose down position. This could be due to the feed lips being spread out in the rear. Don't do anything radical until you get all the information in, but...

I would probably try bending the very aft end of the feed lips inward a bit at a time until the cartridge base was held down more than it currently is, angling (tilting) the entire case nose up, until the tip of the bullet was more in line with the chamber.

However, before you go bending anything, find out what the original owner used for a COAL and make sure you're not exceeding that number. I would also question how the feed lips were bent in the first place, to cause the current condition. If it worked before and doesn't now, what happened to cause it not to work? One possibility is that the spring tension, which seems excessive in your description, may have literally forced the feed lips apart and allowed the cartridge to tilt forward.

I will just caution you that once you begin bending those feed lips it can easily and very quickly turn into a quagmire, a slippery slope that can be difficult to recover from. And if not done correctly, can chew up the feed lips until the mag is nearly worthless! Extreme caution is the word of the day!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[talltexanrancher]

As a longtime user of Berger bullets, especially the .22 and .24's, I think what you found with your batch is very typical and I would add that the variations are too small to cause you any issues. On the cartridge feeding problem, I'll have to leave that to others much more qualified than me.

 

[robert l]

It looks to me - and this could be way off from just one picture! - as though the follower is pushing the cartridge into a nose down position. This could be due to the feed lips being spread out in the rear. Don't do anything radical until you get all the information in, but...

I would probably try bending the very aft end of the feed lips inward a bit at a time until the cartridge base was held down more than it currently is, angling (tilting) the entire case nose up, until the tip of the bullet was more in line with the chamber.

However, before you go bending anything, find out what the original owner used for a COAL and make sure you're not exceeding that number. I would also question how the feed lips were bent in the first place, to cause the current condition. If it worked before and doesn't now, what happened to cause it not to work? One possibility is that the spring tension, which seems excessive in your description, may have literally forced the feed lips apart and allowed the cartridge to tilt forward.

I will just caution you that once you begin bending those feed lips it can easily and very quickly turn into a quagmire, a slippery slope that can be difficult to recover from. And if not done correctly, can chew up the feed lips until the mag is nearly worthless! Extreme caution is the word of the day!
Cheers,
crkckr

And those feed lips are very hard metal so they are hard to bend.I beleive that wyatt says to take the mag out and to put the lips down on a hard peice of wood and smack it down with a mallet.a dead blow is what i use.these are filled with lead balls so you get good contact.But like the other gentleman said put two rounds in the mag push them all the way back and then check your clearance.One thing did the seller tell you about that boo boo before you bought the rifle?

 

[rogerstv]

No. Supposedly worked flawlessly. Been given his COAL of 2.89 as of today.

I'm not going to mess with the magazine. I think the problem lies elsewhere or at least in addition to. See my thread titled "Stock Marks" in the gunsmith forum. Same firearm.

Seller is staying in touch with me and offering to buy it back. We are making plans for a face to face meeting in a week or two. I bought brass, bullets, and dies with the firearm. I bought a pinned, 20 MOA base from Stiller for the action. I can deal with the Nightforce scope and rings I purchased as they will go on another rifle at some point. But, treading water as I jumped in head first on this one expecting the best or at least something I could work with. Right now, I have an expensive single shot that is not very accurate.

 

[crkckr]

What a let down! Unfortunately, I know the feeling. As much as it hurts, you might be better off taking the seller up on a buy back as you're clearly not happy with the purchase - and rightfully so. Hopefully, there will be easy fixes and things will work out... although personally, I wouldn't hold my breath on that. To get this rifle to function and shoot (and look) the way you expected may end up requiring a whole lot more work than you had planned on putting into it. Only you can decide on that but it's a bummer any way you look at it. Hope for the easy fixes but be prepared for the worst, too.
Good luck!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[milo-2]

Loaded three shells in the magazine. Hard to load. Lots of spring pressure. View attachment 148094 View attachment 148095 View attachment 148096 View attachment 148097 View attachment 148098

First round would load into chamber. Upon unloading, the shell failed to eject. Pulled it by hand. Second shell now too far forward. Tip caught on action. I don't see how to adjust magazine. Appears to be rivets in holes on the inside.

First, the Predator has a slightly extended feed lip, if you pull the magazine, turn rifle upside down and look through the mag hole, you'll see what is hanging it up. Most any smith can mill that off w/o any issues. Upon recoil, rds in a magazine get pushed forward, hence the clearance issues, the tip now cannot come up like normal. I have to say this, if you are having these issues, the seller did too.
On your stiff mag, leave the magazine fully loaded for a few days, empty, reload, it'll loosen the spring. Tools are made to bend feed lips, and charts for lip width, I could prob give you the caliper measurements for the front and rear of the lips. Don't go hammering on anything.
One thing I do almost immediately with a new mag is disassemble it, then use some finer emery cloth and clean the underside of the lips, get the paint off, eliminate lines it makes in the brass from feeding.
Really boils down to this, w/o modification, the predator or a rem 700 is not the optimum choice for the 6.5 saum given mag length is longer than what action was designed for. If you had a 308 mag with a binder plate and could manipulate the feed lips to hold the saum case, sounds like you have the case oal to do so. Maybe that is what the seller did if he had non issues, from your pics, your mag looks brand new.