Berger 338 300 gr OTM tip/cavity

[toddc]

I think Elmer would be floored with the improvements in every area. Laugh no I don't think so, he would probably have an issue with the distance shots are being taken today, since back then 500yrds was a damned long shot. The old school conventional thinking still applies for sure when your using the older calibers in the old school method. SD isn't the end all of anything never has been, just like BC it's an indication of possible performance relative 1 and only 1 area of bullet performance. You take 2 bullets of the same caliber and same bullet weight, with bullet A being cheap mass manufactured bullet and B being carefully engineered, with a tapered jacket, and construction being very tightly controlled at every step you will get 2 very different performances at every step of bullet performance. Be it exterior ballistics or terminal ballistics. Even though both bullets have the same basic design.

I do remember cor locket bullets very well, and power point, power lokt. That's all my Dad would buy when I was a kid, what ever was cheapest, I also remember him having one blow up on a spine shot on a cow elk, and proclaiming that a 270 was no good because of it. An issue I've never ever experience since I started reloading, and learned that bullet makers are very good at making a better product.

Uhhhh Elmer Keith was the original long range guy. What would scare him is the lack of understanding how bullets actually work. SD is the end all when you are comparing similar construction. No you will not get different results from one "engineered bullet" versus a mass produced one if they are built the same. Add in differing factors and yes there is a diff.
If we would just use some common sense with bullet weights all this other crap wouldnt matter.
The bullet manufacturers have loaded peoples heads with a bunch of crap. Its funny to me that a basic design thats a 100 years old still works very well when common sense is used. Trick bullet construction has caused people to forget what works. And I guess an edge with a 300 smk is old school. Bullet builders have spent 30 yrs trying to disprove science. They have done a decent job of it but using some old school common sense will make these newer products work better also.

 

[Joe King]

Uhhhh Elmer Keith was the original long range guy. What would scare him is the lack of understanding how bullets actually work. SD is the end all when you are comparing similar construction. No you will not get different results from one "engineered bullet" versus a mass produced one if they are built the same. Add in differing factors and yes there is a diff.
If we would just use some common sense with bullet weights all this other crap wouldnt matter.
The bullet manufacturers have loaded peoples heads with a bunch of crap. Its funny to me that a basic design thats a 100 years old still works very well when common sense is used. Trick bullet construction has caused people to forget what works. And I guess an edge with a 300 smk is old school. Bullet builders have spent 30 yrs trying to disprove science. They have done a decent job of it but using some old school common sense will make these newer products work better also.

So your saying Walt Berger, and Eric Stecker are blowing smoke up our hinney's? And the 175gr rem power points are going to reach 1000yrds with just as much energy as a 180gr VLD, with comparable wind deflection? There's no trick to it, it is science, nobody has ever tried to disprove ballistic science , rather you have guys like Brian Litz that use that science and then improve on it. But hey since he didn't come long 100 or 50 years ago he can't know anything right? Never mind the guy has made some pretty significant advances in bullet engineering the last few years. And if Berger is so full of it then tell me why the #2 guy at Berger is an active member on here constantly collecting results from folks, and standing behind their product to a degree I've never witnessed before.

The edge and SMK didn't exist in Elmers day, There's a lot of advancements that we have and use to good effect that have only come about in the last 20years. If you don't want to take advantage of them that's your deal, those advancements and employing them to make accurate shots at ever increasing ranges is what places like this site are all about, no tricks, no smoke, no mirrors, it is applied science. Folks that are willing to learn, and understand this science, willing to put out the effort to develop the skill set, have proven that. As they say the proof is in the pudding.

 

[timeless61]

I am thinking the first thought of a bullet needing a deep hole could be a misconception. The ones with lead closer to the tip should be less likely to loose a tip on impact. But this is just my opinion. The 215 Hybrids I hunted with this year have a huge cavity and all opened well. So maybe all this tip stuff is not all that important and we are looking for a problem that does not exist? Time and testing will tell.

Jeff

you may be right...

I looked back at the SMK's that I shot, and compared some good ones to the ones with messed up tips, all had the same cavity, but the ones that did not open as well had the deformed tips with not as big of a hole.

I will still test the Bergers, also to compare expansion to the SMK and see what happens at closer range.

 

[toddc]

So your saying Walt Berger, and Eric Stecker are blowing smoke up our hinney's? And the 175gr rem power points are going to reach 1000yrds with just as much energy as a 180gr VLD, with comparable wind deflection? There's no trick to it, it is science, nobody has ever tried to disprove ballistic science , rather you have guys like Brian Litz that use that science and then improve on it. But hey since he didn't come long 100 or 50 years ago he can't know anything right? Never mind the guy has made some pretty significant advances in bullet engineering the last few years. And if Berger is so full of it then tell me why the #2 guy at Berger is an active member on here constantly collecting results from folks, and standing behind their product to a degree I've never witnessed before.

The edge and SMK didn't exist in Elmers day, There's a lot of advancements that we have and use to good effect that have only come about in the last 20years. If you don't want to take advantage of them that's your deal, those advancements and employing them to make accurate shots at ever increasing ranges is what places like this site are all about, no tricks, no smoke, no mirrors, it is applied science. Folks that are willing to learn, and understand this science, willing to put out the effort to develop the skill set, have proven that. As they say the proof is in the pudding.

I guess you didnt get my post. I am agreeing with you. Walt is the only one not blowing smoke. Bergers are 100 yrs old in thier terminal design. The bc....no. Actual killing style? Way old school. I was using exbal and a palm pilot before this website existed and I fully embrace all of the technology out there. What I do not embrace is the bonded/partitioned/tipped bs that sd etc do not matter. Bergers and power points are the same thing once they hit but Berger has kept the weights high which is what makes it work.
Also Elmer pretty well caused a ballistic twin to the edge to become popular 50 yrs ago that pretty well brought about the 338-378 which pretty well brought about the edge. 99% of what Elmer beleived is what we use on here.
Terminally bergers are 100 yr old tech. All the other crap isnt. My posts were meant to convey that a 100 yr old cup core bullet if its sized properly works better than these bonded wonders.
And yes we have many manufactures trying to disprove ballistics with crutches for a well designed bullet. Dont want too much recoil? Build a 110 gr 308 with copper petals to kill with. Most bullet builders want to add some silly crap so they can use a lighter bullet to do the job of a proper slug. I remember the day when it became "ok" to kill stuff with bergers. Id killed hundreds of deer on control with the "target bullets". People are so silly, I had people tell me back then that a berger or smk wouldnt kill a deer!And they still do!
Berger is the only one with proven technology that works both in the air and in the meat without a lot of smoke blowing. Hell any match bullet with enough weight and a thin jacket is a killing machine.

 

[helidriver72]

Berger has .338 300 grain HUNTING bullets coming out soon. I have some, they have the same BC as the OTM's and shoot great!

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to use them on game yet.

 

[azsugarbear]

The Elite Hunter Hybrid in 338 cal are already out and for sale to the public. Both Extreme Outer Limits and Bruno Shooter Supply have then in stock. The Elite Hunter Hybrid in 30 cal should be out next, followed by the .277. The 7mm will be coming out later as there were some problems with the initial set of dies.

 

[kaseyfied]

Ive shot the 300 grain otms with all sorts of depths in the tip. Girlfriend shot an elk this yr at 600 yrds in the spine... dropped with no exspansion issues at all. Just shoot them and watch the magic

 

[captacademy]

Thanks, just ordered a box of the 300 Hybrid. I did not know they were out yet.

 

[Finster]

I Just got a few boxes of 300gr bergers I cant wait to get them reloaded and test them out of my new 338 lapua.