Berger 195's failing?

[Pdvdh]

Same ole same ole. Very disappointing when there's no expansion. If the animal is in wide open spaces, followup shots can often (maybe) anchor them. But in brushy/wooded settings - big time bad news.

 

[Pdvdh]

So ...what is the alternative hunting bullet especially if you have a gun throated for the 195's. Possibly the 175 ELDX? For 28 Nosler hunters what bullet are you getting best terminal performance with?

Tipped bullets expand much more reliably, in my opinion. That largely removes the more disappointing mode of failure - full penetration with no bullet expansion and no bullet tumbling.

 

[werth338]

I can't speak specifically to Berger as I have never shot them at an animal. I did shot antelope with 143 gr eld-x at 3305 mv this fall. I called Hornady to make sure it would open and they said under 200 yards to make sure not to hit shoulder at that range. Antelope ended up being 159 yds away. Very small entry between ribs and went through at a 45 degree angle. Exit hole was baseball to softball size. Was blood soup in the chest cavity and blew the offside lung into two pieces. It took a few steps and fell over. I think Berger makes a great bullet. I prefer an Eld-X or Barnes when hunting based on experience.

 

[loonie]

I have taken 2 elk with 300 otms and they performed at 700 yards. Thats the whole issue, lack of consistency. I always shoot for lungs, never bone.

Lucky that one wasn't a lung shot. Would still be chasing it !!

 

[TwoMore]

this is only my opinion and I respect everyone elses . I quit lung shootin deer a while back, here in the south lung shot whitetail run to far on average and if the shot is on the high side the trail can get tough to follow. heart shot deer run the same but the trail is way better. I always try to shoot shoulders or neck and never have much meat loss. I would rather drop the animal than loose it in a 300+ acre thicket. my family and hunting partners have shot 100s of deer with bergers over the years and have had very few issues other that having to track a lung shot deer from time to time, and that goes with every bullet I have seen shot from game kings, BT's ,AB's, Partitions and vlds . this is a deer I shot last year with a 168 berger , shot was 350 yards with a wsm deer was 5 years old and over 200 pounds , I only had the lung shot as his shoulders and neck were blocked , bullet did beautifully and there was lungs all over the powerline, if it hit just an inch or so higher he would have been DRT, this deer got up and vanished and ran 300 yards. the other pic is were I tracked using Antler Insanity (great App).

I have only shot two deer with the 195 so far like I said earlier so I dont really have the numbers to be sold on them yet but I will keep shooting them . they are very accurate in that rifle. both deer were DRT, both did not exit but the shots were on the short range side at about 320 to 350y, both bullets expanded and were caught by the off side skin, both bullets shed weight but still a good bit there, both bullets went through some bone. My son and I killed 4 good bucks this year all shoulder, high lung(just under the spine) and neck shot all DRT, 0 tracking all bergers , I even head shot a 3 year old cull buck in the head with a 168berger at 300y and that bullet did well .My son and I shot 10 deer all together. one deer ran 40 yards double lunged 9 DRT ranging from 70 to 600. it would be hard to get me to change my mind on bergers as we have had such good results in our hunting with them. I am going to continue to use the 195 in that rifle and we will see
Good Luck to all and I hope yalls hunting year was a good one

 

[CaptnC]

300wm 168gr VLD Hunting...3150fps
Shot; 323yd Aoudad Ram
Bullet weight at recovery; 18.1gr
Ran maybe 20yds...no blood anywhere.

Lung shot behind shoulder, one pedal nearly exited in the brisket area...heavily blood shot there. The area where lead core was found, very little blood shot area there. Small blood shot entrance.

3 sheep shot at near 100yds with same rifle, bullet combo.
All three exited, two ran about 35yds.
1. Bang flop. No blood loss on bang flop, no visible exit but it did...behind shoulder
2. Sheep ran nice blood trail even though it was wide open and seen it fall...behind shoulder
3. Sheep ran, massive blood trail...again in wide open...seen it fall. Giant exit hole in off shoulder.

I plan to use the Berger Elite Hunter this fall in 6.5 caliber guns. 264wm, 6.5-06 and 6.5-284.

 

[midnightmalloy]

So read through the three pages of this thread so far and can only find two posts/people that have ACTUALLY used the berger 7mm 195 bullets! Lots about other bullets and lots of speculation but little real world experience. I have shot 11 animals in the past 2 years with bergers and only 1 ran more than 10 yards. 8 of the 11 dropped. 2 of the 11 ran less than 10 yards and one (antelope doe, broadside at 225yds, double lung right behind the shoulder) ran 80 yards in a big circle.

Now let's hear about real experience with the 7mm 195's!

 

[Riflehunter1776]

the only type of bullet which has never failed me is the new Barnes x bullets, and perhaps that's because I've only ever shot a few dozen deer with them over the last 10 years. Highly frangible bullets produce either spectacular kills, or else spectacular failures.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I've had great success with other Berger bullets and am considering using the 195's, that's why I started the thread!

 

[D.Camilleri]

I have been running 300 gr OTM's at 2800+ in my 338 RUM for close to 5 years. I started with them in my 27 inch Broughton 5C with a 9.3 twist. My first animal killed was a large bodied 5 point bull at around 500 yards, 4 legs straight in the air DRT, bullet didn't exit, hit was behind the shoulder. Next was a big mule deer,180+ 760 yards, quartering bullet exited with guts hanging out, DRT. 6 point bull elk, 750 yards, hit behind the shoulder, second shot blew off a front leg, bull ran down hill for about 50 yards and piled up. Big bodied 180+ mule deer, 70 yards DRT, didn't even flinch, never moved from his bed. Recovered bullet under hide on off side, took out at least one shoulder. 5 point bull elk, 350 yard shot DRT behind the shoulder, thank god, because if he would have run down the steep hill side below, I would still be there packing him out. Can't even remember all of the cow elk killed with this bullet, no failures including a cow hit in the hind quarter after a bad wind call at 850 yards, she ran about 100 yards in the snow and piled up. Of these kills, I recovered 3 bullets all expanded to about 1.25 to 1.5 inches. All that was found was the jacket. Another kill was a big 190 type mule deer dropped at 485 yards, DRT with a hit that blew up 6 inches of his spine. No exit wound in the hide.

Due to some accuracy issues, I had a new Bartlein barrel installed with a 10 twist. Killed a 170+ mule deer at 485 DRT. Bullet broke both shoulders and was found on the off side under the skin and this bullet resembled a bonded bullet's performance, perfect mushroom 3/4 inch in diameter, lead in tact.

I hunt a lot in grizzly country and I have never felt confident that the berger would penetrate enough in a head on charge situation. I experimented with some 300 grain accubonds this last hunting season. Antelope at 350 yards, hit through the guts, walked 5 feet and layed down, next shot destroyed top of the spine. Hardley any meat wasted. Missed a Wolf at 400 yards, must have been Wolf fever, shot 1/2 inch over the top of his back. He was probably the reason I couldn't find a bull elk. Over 6 wolves in one drainage. Late season cow hunt, hit calf in the neck 515 yards (about the size of big deer) DRT. Several days later shot a cow at around 525, missed the wind call and hit pretty far back through the guts just below the spine. She dropped and crawled into the timber, went about 50 feet. When I got up to her, I realized I made a big mistake, no rifle! I had my handy raging bull 454 in my hand when I saw her lift her head, then she tried to get her feet under her and I had no shot due to the trees. She got to her feet and ran off. I chased her through two small canyons in the snow, she ran in front of my buddy and he missed her. I finally jumped her and put another round in her after my buddy brought me my rifle. The 300 gr accubond entered above her hip and penetrated the entire backstrap, exited above the should and cut a gouge in her head where the bullet presumably stopped. I didn't dig it out. She soaked up that hit, but slowed down and stopped in about 30 feet where a kill shot behind the shoulder that was a complete pass through dealt the final blow. I know, this thread is about Berger's, but in this case, I think the Berger would have severed the spine on the first shot due to the shrapnel and it would have been game over. I have some Hornady 285 eldm's that I am going to give a try, but all in all the Bergers have worked very well in my RUM. This is not the case however with some of my friends that have experienced some failures in 30 cal.

 

[midnightmalloy]

I've had great success with other Berger bullets and am considering using the 195's, that's why I started the thread!

Me also! It would be nice to hear from some more who have used it huh!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I forgot about my 3rd experience with the 195. Whitetail a hair over 400yds. A customer shot this deer locally here and never recovered it. So I dont know how it performed. I know whitetails die pretty easy if hit half assed even. Trust me when I say a want to like this bullet. The raw accuracy is actually surprising. I have shot some small groups with them in the 28 that you would not think a case like that would produce in a light hunting gun. This is one of the reasons I have been pushing the 30 Nosler. Very slight ballistic penalty for a very big killing advantage with 215s.

 

[Just cut]

I have used the 195's on whitetail and pigs from 150 to 900 yards out of my 28 nosler with great success. The only thing that didn't drop was a coyote that was about 200 yards.

 

[jlvandersnick]

I agree with Alex that the 195 not a ..................... Berger did offer to replace my brothers lot of bullets so they must be aware that they have a issue. Like wrong label !!

any chance of getting your brothers lot number?