I thought I would one more thing.This year I decided to recreate a goat hunt of the past, or a mountain close to me that hunters used a .405 winchester to kill goats,sheep and grizzly bear with.I looked for a .405 and didn't find one so I bought a Marlin gbl 45/70-same trajectory. I will use it to kill a Billy this fall(with 405 grain hardcasts)and iron sights like the old timers did in a book about our area.You can get close to goats,I have hit them with pebbles from above.Anotomically,they are designed to look down and looking up is difficult for them, imo.If you want to learn something about goats one of the best books was written 100 years ago by WT Hornady"Campfires in the Canadian Rockies" It is out of print but easy to get a knockoff print of it.I don't know if you are a reader but if you are- you will love it.Just thinking out loud I suppose.....Tony