Barrel break-in

[J E Custom]

Two years ago, at the NRA Convention, I talked to the owner of a well known barrel company about fire lapping barrels with Tubbs bullets. His reply was, "we don't recommend anyone do this because we have no control over what they do but I fire lap all my personal barrels".

This will always be controversial, But the barrel makers that I deal with will void there warranty
if you do any abrasive cleaning or brake in.

I already knew the reason, but I had to ask how they could tell that It had been done. The answer was that fire lapping eroded the back part of the barrel (The throat and the first few inches) much more than the rest of the barrel. and it was evident when looked at with a bore scope and with test equipment. Shortening barrel life in the very areas that see the most ware. The use of abrasives to clean showed at both ends because it is very important that the person knows the proper way and doesn't use abrasives that are to aggressive.

When you buy a hand lapped barrel most will tell you which end to cut the chamber and indicate how much barrel needs to be removed at the muzzle. The barrel ends see the most ware because when first inserted the lap has new abrasive and it tends to cut more in the beginning.

I have fire lapped one barrel for a friend and used my bore scope from the beginning and could see the change in the throat and lead surface first.(This was a factory barrel that would not shoot better than a 5'' group at 100 yards so we had very little to lose. It did shoot better after the fire lapping
(2 to 2.5 inches at 100 yards) and being a hunting rifle I have no feel for barrel life at this point.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Len Backus]

Lots of good thoughts here.

Here's one more. I give this to all my rifle customers.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/new-barrel-break-cleaning-methods-160450/
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[FEENIX]

Lots of good thoughts here.

Here's one more. I give this to all my rifle customers.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/new-barrel-break-cleaning-methods-160450/
.
.

... and also made it easily available as a sticky on this forum. gun)

 

[Edd]

This will always be controversial, But the barrel makers that I deal with will void there warranty
if you do any abrasive cleaning or brake in.

I already knew the reason, but I had to ask how they could tell that It had been done. The answer was that fire lapping eroded the back part of the barrel (The throat and the first few inches) much more than the rest of the barrel. and it was evident when looked at with a bore scope and with test equipment. Shortening barrel life in the very areas that see the most ware. The use of abrasives to clean showed at both ends because it is very important that the person knows the proper way and doesn't use abrasives that are to aggressive.

When you buy a hand lapped barrel most will tell you which end to cut the chamber and indicate how much barrel needs to be removed at the muzzle. The barrel ends see the most ware because when first inserted the lap has new abrasive and it tends to cut more in the beginning.

I have fire lapped one barrel for a friend and used my bore scope from the beginning and could see the change in the throat and lead surface first.(This was a factory barrel that would not shoot better than a 5'' group at 100 yards so we had very little to lose. It did shoot better after the fire lapping
(2 to 2.5 inches at 100 yards) and being a hunting rifle I have no feel for barrel life at this point.

J E CUSTOM

Firing a half dozen-one dozen, the actual recommendation from Tubbs was 7-10, Tubbs TMS bullets in a newly chambered barrel will erode the first few inches of it so much it will be visible with a bore scope?

 

[J E Custom]

Firing a half dozen-one dozen, the actual recommendation from Tubbs was 7-10, Tubbs TMS bullets in a newly chambered barrel will erode the first few inches of it so much it will be visible with a bore scope?

Yes . that is what I have seen and the barrel makers confirmed it. My visual examinations with the bore scope showed definite signs that the land edges were more rounded and no longer as sharp as the rest of the barrel. (This is the area of the most loading because of engraving). Barrel makers have confirmed this with air gaging and other high Tec measuring tools.

Abrasives are much harder than the barrel material and bullet jackets, so wear is accelerated in the first few inches. Hand lapping causes the same accelerated wear but the use of very fine grit slows this and ends up being more uniform over all surfaces. This is the reason some don't believe in lapping or break in at all. I like the quick results in accuracy and lack of fouling so I can start load development within 15 to 20 rounds with no change in performance.

I have nothing against the use of the fire lapping bullets on factory barrels that are beyond saving,
especially on a hunting rifle that may never see more than 4 or 500 rounds in its life. It is definitely easier than a conventional break in but the downside Is reduced accuracy and barrel life for those that need both.

So until something better (Not faster) comes along, I will continue to use the shoot and clean process that allows more control over the end results. Like so many other things in this sport, faster and easier is not always better.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Just a Side Note to this thread.

There will always be a difference in opinions on many things in the shooting sports, and this is just another one. As many have mentioned a barrel will eventually get broke in. This is very true, but it is the time and quality of the brake in that is the difference in my opinion.

If a barrel Is broke in using the shoot and clean method, it will reach its potential accuracy very soon and load development can start early (Normally 15 to 20 rounds). Also as the results of my latest velocity test while breaking in, velocity settles down at this same time, so productive load development starts soon instead of 75 to 100 rounds later as with the barrel that is not broken in early.

Without cleaning often in the beginning, the copper fouling will not only slow the brake in process it will/can cause an uneven brake in that will take many shots to even out if it ever does. With an uneven brake in, accuracy will never be as good as it could have been.

You don't need a bore scope to tell when this is the case, The dry patch will tell you by its changing resistance while being pushed down the bore. A properly broken in barrel will feel like it has grease in it because there is no change in resistance and of the smooth travel of the patch
down the bore.

Everyone will do this the way they believe is the best, and all I can do it present the experiences I have had and seen.

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Just a Side Note to this thread.

There will always be a difference in opinions on many things in the shooting sports, and this is just another one. As many have mentioned a barrel will eventually get broke in. This is very true, but it is the time and quality of the brake in that is the difference in my opinion.

If a barrel Is broke in using the shoot and clean method, it will reach its potential accuracy very soon and load development can start early (Normally 15 to 20 rounds). Also as the results of my latest velocity test while breaking in, velocity settles down at this same time, so productive load development starts soon instead of 75 to 100 rounds later as with the barrel that is not broken in early.

Without cleaning often in the beginning, the copper fouling will not only slow the brake in process it will/can cause an uneven brake in that will take many shots to even out if it ever does. With an uneven brake in, accuracy will never be as good as it could have been.

You don't need a bore scope to tell when this is the case, The dry patch will tell you by its changing resistance while being pushed down the bore. A properly broken in barrel will feel like it has grease in it because there is no change in resistance and of the smooth travel of the patch
down the bore.

Everyone will do this the way they believe is the best, and all I can do it present the experiences I have had and seen.

J E CUSTOM

A question....How do you determine if the barrel is broken in? I used to think I knew. But now I can't see the same results that I used to.

Steve

 

[J E Custom]

A question....How do you determine if the barrel is broken in? I used to think I knew. But now I can't see the same results that I used to.

Steve

Up until recently, it was the ability to clean easy and the feel of the bore when cleaning Now I can add the fact that there is a velocity increase (Based on the test during brake in) ashttps://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/new-barrel-break-in-and-cleaning-methods.160450/page-2 (post #20) you clean and about the time it feels broke in the velocity levels out and becomes stable.

There is no magic number of shots or exact science because every barrel is different, so it is just a matter of how well/quick it cleans up and the velocity stabilizes. A bore scope helps to see the difference from the un-fired barrel.

I use the Butches bore shine for brake in because it cleans/dissolves
fouling relatively fast during brake in. once it is broken in, i switch to Bore tech eliminator for normal cleaning. some solvents have/are oil based and can mask the feel of dry patch, so i use the Butches .

I have broken in hundreds of barrels and know the feel but with the velocity test, I now have another parameter to look at.

Hope this helps

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'll try the vel test on the next one. With our bullets we are not seeing copper fouling or the traditional signs. So it winds up appearing to be a waste.

Thanks

Steve

 

[J E Custom]

Steve, I like the sound of less fouling bullets. but I think it is not as much about the fouling as the barrel conditioning.

Looking forward to your test results!!

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We always used to do the shoot and clean method watching for the copper fouling to diminish. That was always the indicator that the barrel had "smoothed" up. Without that indicator we just did not know when we were done. Finally we just got to the point that we would just shoot and clean once to make sure there was not a problem and then go on with load development. Then clean when done. With load development we are always increasing charge so can't really see the barrel changing. Good loads have not been anymore difficult to get to than a seasoned barrel. Although we do have a rifle that is a factory Rem that after about 50 shots seems to be hitting a bit high at distance. Need to check and see if it sped up.

Steve

 

[Greyfox]

With roughly half the rifles that I have broken in, both factory and custom, I have experienced an increase in velocity from 25-60FPS after 50-150 rounds.

 

[gohring3006]

I do the shoot one clean method that's basically one of the standard procedures.
Like was mentioned, it gives me a chance to start the fireform process, and gives me a idea if the rifle is going to shoot.
I hex coat every rifle I get, so I like to get the barrel burr free and as clean as I can, then I start the barrel "seasoning" with hex. I then won't clean the copper for several hundred rounds just carbon.
I'm currently testing a 300 Win mag savage. I'm only going to clean the carbon and leave the hex coating and copper in it for it's entire life, or at least until it just won't shoot anymore.
For some of the non believers out there, you can see the patches come out cleaner as you go thru the process. I know it's helpful, because before I went to hex coating, I would have barrels with several hundred rounds, clean much easier and faster than barrels that I haven't broken in with just 30 or 40 rounds thru them.

 

[brentc]

With roughly half the rifles that I have broken in, both factory and custom, I have experienced an increase in velocity from 25-60FPS after 50-150 rounds.

This is true. Another thing to point out is that it happens whether or not a break in procedure is done early in the barrel's life.