Any reason not to build a 300 Rsaum?

[MontanaRifleman]

In my opinion, I see no reason to build a 300 RSAUM when you already have a 7mmSAUM. The 7mm will have superior ballistics in just about every catagory over a 30 caliber in the same cartridge. I guess the question is, what are your intentions with this new build? Hunting, target, etc....

Do you have any actual data to back that up? It's the old myth that continues to be repeated. "The 7 is ballistically superior to the 30". Fact is, it is not. The 300 SAUM will push a 215 Hybrid almost the same velocity that a 7 SAUM will push a 180 Hybrid. External ballistics is almost identical. Neither is "superior". The 300 delivers a larger cal bullet with more mass down range and therefore it IS a superior hunting round.

 

[nctta]

I'd like the brass. Will you let me know the price please?

 

[Derek M.]

He did write, "in just about every category." Not 100%. I never debate those differences between the 2 because at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Each hunter/shooter is going to (hopefully) learn his ammo's trajectory anyway. The animal dies either way with good shot placement.

I agree with you about the continued discussions between the 7mm and 30s though. It's another parallel to the 270 v. the 280. Who gives a crap when you are shooting at a deer at 350 yards if there's such a huge disparity between bullet selection? I know guys downing deer annually with flat base Speer bullets inside of 500 yards from a 270.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

He did write, "in just about every category." Not 100%. I never debate those differences between the 2 because at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Each hunter/shooter is going to (hopefully) learn his ammo's trajectory anyway. The animal dies either way with good shot placement.

I agree with you about the continued discussions between the 7mm and 30s though. It's another parallel to the 270 v. the 280. Who gives a crap when you are shooting at a deer at 350 yards if there's such a huge disparity between bullet selection? I know guys downing deer annually with flat base Speer bullets inside of 500 yards from a 270.

He wrote...

The 7mm will have superior ballistics in just about every catagory over a 30 caliber in the same cartridge

That is simply not true. At one time there was a better selection of 7mm higher BC bullets but that has changed. There is nothing inherently superior about the 7 over the 30 ballistically. The fact is a 30 cal will push the same weight bullet (lower BC) faster than the 7 and it will push a bullet of equal sectional density, form factor and BC about the same velocity. There is no external ballistic superiority. The terminal ballistic superiority goes to the 30.

 

[Derek M.]

That is simply not true. At one time there was a better selection of 7mm higher BC bullets but that has changed. There is nothing inherently superior about the 7 over the 30 ballistically. The fact is a 30 cal will push the same weight bullet (lower BC) faster than the 7 and it will push a bullet of equal sectional density, form factor and BC about the same velocity. There is no external ballistic superiority. The terminal ballistic superiority goes to the 30.

I don't disagree with you but the whole argument is problematic in that the premise relies on what each cartridge WILL do, not necessarily what it will do with precision and satisfactory accuracy.

Case in point: I have a 7 SAUM and a 300 SAUM, all else identical in every way possible, take the bullets you posed, the 215 and 180 respectively. If everything goes right and I want to shoot a target at 1000 yards, you are saying the 300 wins. Probably true, I don't know, never did the test. But what if the best accuracy comes from the slower speed on the 300/215 combo? Losing 200fps or more? But the 7mm/180 combo shows supreme accuracy at the top velocity achievable....seems to me the 7 is going to win now.

All of the repeated debates on this issue seems to fall on best case scenarios day in and day out. Unfortunately, I haven't experienced this to be reality. But I'm not that experienced either.

 

[Derek M.]

I'd like the brass. Will you let me know the price please?

Sure will, but he's in KY on his place hunting for a few days. I'll try to remember to call him Monday or Tuesday. You want all of it?

 

[nctta]

Most interested in New but I will take it all

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I don't disagree with you but the whole argument is problematic in that the premise relies on what each cartridge WILL do, not necessarily what it will do with precision and satisfactory accuracy.

Case in point: I have a 7 SAUM and a 300 SAUM, all else identical in every way possible, take the bullets you posed, the 215 and 180 respectively. If everything goes right and I want to shoot a target at 1000 yards, you are saying the 300 wins. Probably true, I don't know, never did the test. But what if the best accuracy comes from the slower speed on the 300/215 combo? Losing 200fps or more? But the 7mm/180 combo shows supreme accuracy at the top velocity achievable....seems to me the 7 is going to win now.

All of the repeated debates on this issue seems to fall on best case scenarios day in and day out. Unfortunately, I haven't experienced this to be reality. But I'm not that experienced either.

I'm not saying the 215/300 wins in external ballisitics (vel and wind) I'm saying it's basically a tie. No superiority either way.

Have you shot the 180 hybrid out of your 7? I am guessing you might get 2800 fps out of a 26" barrel? And I'm guessing 2750 is possible in the 300 SAUM for the 215's out of a 26" barrel. You might be able to get a few fps more with te 180 but the 215 has a higher BC so it's basically a wash. I base that on my own experiences withe 7 RM and 300 WSM. I was able to get 2930 shooting 210 Bergers with RL17 out of a 24" barrel. With H4831, I'm guessing I could have got 2750. And the 215's are a little faster bullet than the 210's.

Bottom line when you compare apples to apples, the external ballistics between the 7 and 300 are going to be very close. But when it comes to terminal ballistics, the bigger cal wins.

 

[Derek M.]

I'm not saying the 215/300 wins in external ballisitics (vel and wind) I'm saying it's basically a tie. No superiority either way.

Have you shot the 180 hybrid out of your 7? I am guessing you might get 2800 fps out of a 26" barrel? And I'm guessing 2750 is possible in the 300 SAUM for the 215's out of a 26" barrel. You might be able to get a few fps more with te 180 but the 215 has a higher BC so it's basically a wash. I base that on my own experiences withe 7 RM and 300 WSM. I was able to get 2930 shooting 210 Bergers with RL17 out of a 24" barrel. With H4831, I'm guessing I could have got 2750. And the 215's are a little faster bullet than the 210's.

Bottom line when you compare apples to apples, the external ballistics between the 7 and 300 are going to be very close. But when it comes to terminal ballistics, the bigger cal wins.

No I don't own either of the SAUM. I was giving an example. Still a topic, fertile grounds for discussion, but I'm a simple guy and just look at the outcome, the dead deer, etc. I'm less concerned about all of the ballistic characteristics out there than most. I hunt with what I like and have and make the best of it and just check my trajectories and go hunting.

There's no shortage of guys out there who will make good points about how a 7mm trumps a .277, and so on but I am content with what my rifles and ammo do and they have served me well at all distances I have killed game, some of which I would be accused of being dishonest with what my plain old 270 Win has done in Wyoming and Colorado