Any Interest in Reloading Services?

[Sledhead406]

For full ammo production, liability is the killer. One of my businesses, with much less liability than this, started at $5000/yr for insurance. It is now over $10k/yr.

When you figure a baseline fixed cost of just insurance, then add the legalese necessary to (maybe) relieve you of liability... plus the time needed to actually do the work in a volume necessary to cover just the fixed costs... It just doesn't add up.

Unfortunately we live in a society where even the stupidest mistake by an end user can result in you going through a bankruptcy level lawsuit.

That being said: A surprising amount of people, including friends and family, will tell you 1000 reasons why you should not start some new venture. Take what they say with a grain of salt. Ask around like you did here, the idea for brass prep/annealing only is a good one (but still better consult a lawyer..ugh).

 

[rcwinkel]

To operate an ammunition manufacturing or re-manufacturing operation (loading ammo for profit) involves a lot of detail and red tape. Aside from the need to have state and local business licenses, here's just a short list of what I learned...

- You would need an appropriate level FFL and an ITAR account.

- You would need to collect and report the federal tax on each round you produce (for both sale and quality testing purposes).

- Insurance can start at $10k per year and go up from there - payable in advance of course.

- The local fire marshal may subject you to the section of the National Fire Code defining the operation of ammunition manufacturers and retail operations. Heed their input and guidance!

- The operation's address would need to be in a properly zoned location. (The FFL also requires that. Trying to set up a manufacturing operation in an address zoned for residential could prevent you from getting the FFL.)

It can be as rewarding as frustrating.

 

[del2les]

MANY issues to address. I owned an ammunition manufacturing and reman business for several years, and you will need a Class VI FFL from the BATFE, liability insurance, collect and submit required federal excise and local sales taxes on ammo sales, meet any local and state requirements, zoning codes, BATFE does like like home addresses for business ops, fire codes, OSHA, proper approved fire resistant powder/primer storage containers etc, etc.

I began my business in the late 80's, and as the restrictions and requirements grew, along with the liability insurance, my profits were not enough to justify the growing headaches, and even though I was producing many thousands of rounds per month plus selling home cast bullets and components, I decided to close the op.

Once you cross over into "selling" for any profit, you become an ammo manufacturer and must meet ALL the requirements for federal, state and local laws and regs.

 

[jlreff]

Same here. Worked for a local store that did the same thing. They finally quit when the restrictions and insurance became too high. I still case prep for a few clients but I don't make any money at it.esspecialy when you consider the time enovled.

 

[John 264]

I am thinking about starting a side business offering a couple of reloading services that some of you may either not like or don't have time for. The first service would be brass prep and the second service would be full (re)loading to your specs.

My steps for the fired brass prep process would be:
Step 1. Remove Spent Primer
Step 2. Tumble Clean
Step 3. Anneal With AMP Mark II (1 Piece of Brass Will Be Sacrificed)
Step 4. Standard FL Resize with No Expander
Step 5. Tumble Clean to Remove Lube
Step 6. Trim and Clean Primer Pocket
Step 7. Imperial Dry Lube Neck
Step 8. Expand Neck with Sinclair Expander Die

My steps for the full reloading would be the same steps for prepping plus priming, charging, and seating the bullet all to your specifications.

As far as pricing, it would have to be worth my time and it probably only makes sense cost wise to do it for the high quality brass. I was thinking like $0.60 per piece for prep and component cost + $0.80 per round loaded. I suppose if someone only wanted decapping, tumbling, and annealing I could do that too.

Basically, I just need to know if there is any interest for any of this. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

John

you will have to have manufacturing ffl and at least 5 million dollars in liability insurance coverage and possibly a state and local licensing

 

[Lee56]

If you get past the insurance stuff, sigh me up!

 

[rcwinkel]

I am thinking about starting a side business offering a couple of reloading services that some of you may either not like or don't have time for. The first service would be brass prep and the second service would be full (re)loading to your specs.

My steps for the fired brass prep process would be:
Step 1. Remove Spent Primer
Step 2. Tumble Clean
Step 3. Anneal With AMP Mark II (1 Piece of Brass Will Be Sacrificed)
Step 4. Standard FL Resize with No Expander

John

While the AMP Mark II is a fantastic machine, it doesn't lend itself well to volume production work - you would have to sit there and manually feed it, one case at a time.

Other commercially available induction annealing machines are better suited for production work. Some can even be fitted with water cooled coils to remove the heat that builds up in the coil's core.

A coil's Q (yes, it is a real thing) is a measure of a coil's efficiency. The Q degrades as the coil heats up and will cause the process (in this case, the amount of time needed to properly anneal a case) to shift; more time is needed to anneal using a hot coil. This is most problematic when annealing large caliber brass where the duty cycles are much greater than with small caliber brass. We take Q into account when designing circuitry that includes coils.

 

[del2les]

MANY issues to address. I owned an ammunition manufacturing and reman business for several years, and you will need a Class VI FFL from the BATFE, liability insurance, collect and submit required federal excise and local sales taxes on ammo sales, meet any local and state requirements, zoning codes, BATFE does like like home addresses for business ops, fire codes, OSHA, proper approved fire resistant powder/primer storage containers etc, etc.

I began my business in the late 80's, and as the restrictions and requirements grew, along with the liability insurance, my profits were not enough to justify the growing headaches, and even though I was producing many thousands of rounds per month plus selling home cast bullets and components, I decided to close the op.

Once you cross over into "selling" for any profit, you become an ammo manufacturer and must meet ALL the requirements for federal, state and local laws and regs.

Forgot to add: Form an LLC to help protect your private and family assets from any liability lawsuits that may exceed the limits of your insurance. A few $MM in insurance may sound like a lot, but in today's litigious environment, the legal fees alone for one case can be in the 6 figures, and jury settlements are unpredictable. Actually, a couple of moderate claims will most likely exceed your insurance limits. The LLC can help protect your personal finances, and the LLC can just file for Chapter 11 protection.

I hate to sound negative, but today's world isn't the same as a few decades ago.

 

[hzy1369]

I got to tell you I would love to find someone closer that offers that. I don't have the equipment nor the area for it and would love to have custom loads worked up for a couple of rifles.

 

[rcwinkel]

Forgot to add: Form an LLC to help protect your private and family assets from any liability lawsuits that may exceed the limits of your insurance. A few $MM in insurance may sound like a lot, but in today's litigious environment, the legal fees alone for one case can be in the 6 figures, and jury settlements are unpredictable. Actually, a couple of moderate claims will most likely exceed your insurance limits. The LLC can help protect your personal finances, and the LLC can just file for Chapter 11 protection.

I hate to sound negative, but today's world isn't the same as a few decades ago.

Talk to your CPA about your tax situation and whether you should form an LLC, C-Corp or S-Corp. Then, go talk to and hire an attorney to get everything properly set up. It might seem expensive in the short term, but if you don't do it correctly or fail to do due diligence, can be many times more costly down the road. It's not too awfully difficult to pierce the corporate cloak with any of these business types. If negligence can be shown, the corporate entity may not protect your personal assets.

 

[IanCo]

I would be interested in brass cleaning/annealing.

 

[cajun]

If you do it. Start an llc to limit your personal liability.

 

[gunaddict]

John, I have a guy from Snipers Hide anneal my brass. He also SS media cleans the brass. He charges 10 cents a round if they are deprimed for SS cleaning and annealing. Plus shipping.

 

[Huggy]

Don't want to discourage you but I don't think there would be much profit to be made in this. The insurance needed for full ammo reload, I believe, would make it hard to make a profit this way and case prep is long and tedious . If I were to add all the hours up that I do reloading and put a price on it, I believe I would be better off using factory loads. JMO

Agreed to a point.
The issue is volume. You'll need to prep a LOT of brass to turn a profit above the.costs of doing the.actual business, i.e., insurance, location, equipment, your time, etc.
I don't want to rain on your parade but the cost amortization above the equipment, etc., means you'll either have single clients needed a BUNCH of work done as well as a fair number of additional clients.
Face it, one or two customers isn't worth your time. It will end up costing YOU money. BTDT and won't again. I used to clean and size brass for friends for free (yeah, I'm a dummy. LOL) and it requires a sizable investment of YOUR time.
Do a LOT of research and keep GOOD notes. Your eyes will be opened.
Good Luck if you go with it, though.