Announcing the New Hammer HHT

[shinbone]

JMHO, but 150 gn mono at top speed is ideal for elk.

Remember, with a mono, you don't "throw away" bullet weight upon impact, where with a lead core, you are losing upwards of 50% of the weight on impact so you need to start out with more.

Plus, as Butterbean says, speed kills will Hammer bullets.

JMHO

 

[Mark37082]

The Hammer website has load data where they have the 170gr scooting at 3200fps out of a 24" barrel with RL26 and Ramshot (I think). That's nifty, and I'm sure you'd get 3000fps easy with a 20". The 162s should be at least 50fps faster than the 170s.

I'm not an expert by any means, but my spider senses tell me 3200 fps out of 24" 7PRC with 170's is well past max pressure.

I'm still waiting on Hammer to set up the equipment to install the tips. I still have a decent supply of HH's and other bullets to try. Maybe I'm being hard headed or lazy, but I'm still on the fence on installing tips on the HHT.

 

[ButterBean]

Oh Mr bean you know I too like my speed…I will however add the obvious caveat that the highest IMPACT velocity, not the highest MUZZLE velocity, is where the killing power is. BC isn't irrelevant or meaningless, it's just not the holy grail it's made to be by many.

Absolutely.

I'm not talking about muzzle velocity, I'm talking about impact velocity, he obviously knows his limit and either of the pills he suggested will work fine but there are lighter piles that will shoot flatter with less time of flight, that's what id be looking at but to each their own

 

[Calvin45]

I'm not talking about muzzle velocity, I'm talking about impact velocity, he obviously knows his limit and either of the pills he suggested will work fine but there are lighter piles that will shoot flatter with less time of flight, that's what id be looking at but to each their own

Alright same page then.

I just know sometimes in the excitement surrounding light monos at warp speed the focus can become only on the highest mv without considering that by the time the bullet gets to the target EVEN AT NORMAL HUNTING RANGES it's bled off so much speed that a little sleeker bullet starting just a bit slower is actually hitting not just harder but faster.

Ran into this when I managed to get the 120 Barnes tac tx to 4000 fps in my .300 Winnie and also with the 75 grain hammer hunter to 4150 in my .257 bee. Right away someone asks "why not go even faster with the 110 tac tx/67 grain shock hammer?"

Well because INSIDE 150 YARDS those bullets have already become slower than the 120/75. That's all I'm ranting about haha, and it's certainly a reply to your "speed kills" quote but it's not ranting directed at you .

Oh dear….i derailed again!

 

[fordy]

Gday Calvin

Alright same page then.

I just know sometimes in the excitement surrounding light monos at warp speed the focus can become only on the highest mv without considering that by the time the bullet gets to the target EVEN AT NORMAL HUNTING RANGES it's bled off so much speed that a little sleeker bullet starting just a bit slower is actually hitting not just harder but faster.

Ran into this when I managed to get the 120 Barnes tac tx to 4000 fps in my .300 Winnie and also with the 75 grain hammer hunter to 4150 in my .257 bee. Right away someone asks "why not go even faster with the 110 tac tx/67 grain shock hammer?"

Well because INSIDE 150 YARDS those bullets have already become slower than the 120/75. That's all I'm ranting about haha, and it's certainly a reply to your "speed kills" quote but it's not ranting directed at you .

Oh dear….i derailed again!

I like derails like this as it just keeps showing the way forward imo

Speed is one part , impact speed is the final destination we need to get to not stuck in the roadhouse halfway there or in the next county

it's so important to do our own velocity brackets on comparing one load vrs the other ( terminal capabilities needs to be met of course )
Cheers

 

[deputyrpa]

I'm not talking about muzzle velocity, I'm talking about impact velocity, he obviously knows his limit and either of the pills he suggested will work fine but there are lighter piles that will shoot flatter with less time of flight, that's what id be looking at but to each their own

Absolutely. Impact velocity is the limiting shooting range factor. A man's bullet has to work as designed.

 

[ButterBean]

Here is an example how I base everything, This is The Mule (300 RUN) with the 124 HH, I hold myself to 500 yard shot on deer unless the conditions are good and I'm confident in the shot now with that being said it's still an 800 yard laser with the 124, as I said this is what works for me

 

[deputyrpa]

With my & PRC handloads with a 175gr ELD-X at 2900fps, I am limited to 700 yds @2021fps with a 0.86 sec flight time at my 156' altitude and high humidity.

 

[ButterBean]

With my & PRC handloads with a 175gr ELD-X at 2900fps, I am limited to 700 yds @2021fps with a 0.86 sec flight time at my 156' altitude and high humidity.

Yep but the ELDX won't have the terminal performance of the Hammer

 

[deputyrpa]

Yep but the ELDX won't have the terminal performance of the Hammer

That's why I ordered Hammers.

 

[Calvin45]

Here is an example how I base everything, This is The Mule (300 RUN) with the 124 HH, I hold myself to 500 yard shot on deer unless the conditions are good and I'm confident in the shot now with that being said it's still an 800 yard laser with the 124, as I said this is what works for me
View attachment 555432

That's a pretty telling chart. Definitely getting bullet upset and terminal performance to 800 yards with that, if that's accurate and it's over 1800…but more so I like your philosophy of a "inside 500" Point blank hold on hair death ray with that loading. The interesting thing to me is that at 500 yards it's still hitting with that impact velocity over 2600 feet per second.

That's a very significant number to me. I've learned a tremendous amount from reading all of Nathan Foster's online literature about cartridge and bullet performance, he is an authority figure on terminal ballistics in the same way that Bryan Litz is an authority figure on external ballistics and BC calculation, in my mind.

Over the course of having shot thousands of animals with all kinds of bullets and cartridges over decades he's made a general observation that, whether copper monos or tougher lead core hunting bullets (match ones are more violent and fast killing at low velocity), 2600 FPS IMPACT velocity is a kind of magical cut off point WHEN USING SMALLBORES (and 30 is still smallbore, I think the mediums technically start at either .338 or .358, that's when velocity starts being less essential to killing power it seems anyway, especially with the 35 and 37 cals)

Below 2600 fps with smallbores he observes you can still have awesome broad wounding and full penetration but there's just something about it that at impacts over 2600 fps the odds of an instant poleaxe effect without a CNS hit or collapse within 25 yards of being hit are just orders of magnitude more likely.

My comparatively VERY limited field experience has been in full agreement with that observation.

That's a sweet load you have there.

 

[jessej]

That's a pretty telling chart. Definitely getting bullet upset and terminal performance to 800 yards with that, if that's accurate and it's over 1800…but more so I like your philosophy of a "inside 500" Point blank hold on hair death ray with that loading. The interesting thing to me is that at 500 yards it's still hitting with that impact velocity over 2600 feet per second.

That's a very significant number to me. I've learned a tremendous amount from reading all of Nathan Foster's online literature about cartridge and bullet performance, he is an authority figure on terminal ballistics in the same way that Bryan Litz is an authority figure on external ballistics and BC calculation, in my mind.

Over the course of having shot thousands of animals with all kinds of bullets and cartridges over decades he's made a general observation that, whether copper monos or tougher lead core hunting bullets (match ones are more violent and fast killing at low velocity), 2600 FPS IMPACT velocity is a kind of magical cut off point WHEN USING SMALLBORES (and 30 is still smallbore, I think the mediums technically start at either .338 or .358, that's when velocity starts being less essential to killing power it seems anyway, especially with the 35 and 37 cals)

Below 2600 fps with smallbores he observes you can still have awesome broad wounding and full penetration but there's just something about it that at impacts over 2600 fps the odds of an instant poleaxe effect without a CNS hit or collapse within 25 yards of being hit are just orders of magnitude more likely.

My comparatively VERY limited field experience has been in full agreement with that observation.

That's a sweet load you have there.

And I can back up beans claims as fact with my own experience.
Except that my chart doesn't have those stupid metric drops.

 

[Wedgy]

your philosophy of a "inside 500" Point blank hold on hair death ray with that loading. The interesting thing to me is that at 500 yards it's still hitting with that impact velocity over 2600 feet per second.

s

At 500 yards that is roughly ~21 inches of drop so that has to be a really big animal.

 

[Calvin45]

At 500 yards that is roughly ~21 inches of drop so that has to be a really big animal.

I suppose if you zeroed a load like that at 200 yards yeah.

@ButterBean has these started north of 4200 fps in his .300 RUM (over 3700 at 100 yards).

Just guessing a bc of around .350 with a scope mounted at standard 1.5 height, if you zero that for 350 yards is about exactly 12 inches of drop at 500 and at no point more than 4 inches above line of sight on its way to 350.