Am I doing something wrong with my Bergers?? Im stumped!!

[trevor73402]

Let me start off my saying that I am very new to "precision" reloading. Here is an overview of what I have and the problem Im having.

I have a Rem. 700 SPS-V in .300WSM that I have been working with hopefully working my way out to 1000yds in the future. I was told by several people when I was getting this rifle set up to shoot the 210gr Berger VLD and was given a good base load to start out with as reference.

Well ive been working with the load and Im using 63grs of H4350, Win brass, Fed. 215 primers, and the 210grn VLD. The load shoots fairly well at 100 yds. If Im doing my part I can put 3 shots on paper that will fit under a quarter.

However.....here is my problem. Ive played with different seating depths on the Bergers all the way from jammed into the lands and everything back from that to well under C.O.A.L. listed in the Speer manual. To get the decent group Im having to seat the Bergers at 2.824 COAL which is really deep in my opinion. Its well below what will fit into the magazine. This goes against everything that Im reading saying that the Bergers do better usually .010 to .020 off the lands. When Im seating them the brass is coming up so high on the bullet right to the point where the bullet begins to taper down.

Is this right? Am I doing something wrong? Or does my rifle just not like the Bergers?? My other concern is that I know that the deeper you seat/greater the distance off the lands the more velocity that you lose and I dont have a chrono, but I was hoping to get atleast 2850-3000 fps with this load.

Would I be better off ditching the Bergers and trying the SMK's?

Again Im not a pro so if I am doing something wrong or seem like a moron please accept my apologies. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good shooting,

 

[RockZ]

Trevor,
This link will answer your questions on Bergers:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...accuracy-berger-vld-bullets-your-rifle-40204/

 

[trevor73402]

Thanks Rockz, but I've looked at that link several times. That's really jus talking about the distance off the lands and the "sweet spot" in your particular rifle. I'm havin to seat quite a bit deeper than all those. Like I said the bulle is seated so deep that the brass is up on the bullet where it begins to taper to the point.

 

[BryanLitz]

Trevor,

The fact that your rifle shoots best with the bullets seated very deep is not a sign that you're doing anything wrong. That's just where your rifle likes them.

It's true that some rifles like longer OAL's better with the bullet closer to the lands, but not all rifles are the same. As long as you're not pushing the nose of the bullet down into the case mouth it's ok.

Other things you can try to improve accuracy are: different powder charges and powder types and different weights of bullets.

Good luck,
-Bryan

 

[406pat]

What twist barrel do you have? I imagine a .300WSM would have around a 1:10 but if for some reason it's a slower twist it might not be able to stabilize the heavier bullets no matter how you load them.

 

[trevor73402]

Trevor,

The fact that your rifle shoots best with the bullets seated very deep is not a sign that you're doing anything wrong. That's just where your rifle likes them.

It's true that some rifles like longer OAL's better with the bullet closer to the lands, but not all rifles are the same. As long as you're not pushing the nose of the bullet down into the case mouth it's ok.

Other things you can try to improve accuracy are: different powder charges and powder types and different weights of bullets.

Good luck,
-Bryan

Thanks for the reply Bryan,
I guess if the rifle likes them deep then thats how I'll load them, I just wanted to check to see if anyone thought I might be doing something wrong. Ive played with different charges from 61grns up to 65grns and it really shoots the best at 63 grns. As far as trying different weights of bullets I may have to try that, but Ive already got 2 boxes of the 210 VLD's and at $42 a box Im gonna have to work with them till they are gone.

I dont care how deep the bullets are seated except for the fact that I read the deeper you seat/farther off the lands the more your velocity drops off. As long as I can get 2850+fps with the load I think it will be ok. Im gonna shoot it at 200-400 yds and see how it does.

Thanks,

 

[bigngreen]

My dad's 300 WBY like the 210's seated in right up to the start of the ogive. Kinda looks dumb but shoots better than anything he has put down it and he has tryed a lot of stuff.

 

[trevor73402]

My dad's 300 WBY like the 210's seated in right up to the start of the ogive. Kinda looks dumb but shoots better than anything he has put down it and he has tryed a lot of stuff.

That's exactly the way I'm havin to do mine to get them to shoot a tight group. Your right it does look really weird, but if that's what it takes then that's what I'll do. I'm glad that someone else is having the same issues I am. It gives me a little reassurance in my efforts.
Thanks again for all the replys.

 

[Topshot]

Trev,
Sometimes with a rifle set up a particular way, strange things happen. try and upset the rifle a bit and see if you can make a new sweet spot.

At the moment you are trying bullet seating depth to improove accuracy. I would try a few other things if you are not happy with the seating depth. As has been mentioned, powders, primers, cases etc.

Also one thing I would do, is take the action out of the stock and examine the bedding under the action and in the barrel channel. Then bed the action if you think it would help. Even on a SPS.

Then I would try different torque settings on the action take down screws. Never know what this may turn up. On one rifle I found that a combination of removing the bedding from under the barrel channel and going from 65in/lb back to 45in/lb made a heck of an improovement in accuracy.

 

[trevor73402]

Trev,
Sometimes with a rifle set up a particular way, strange things happen. try and upset the rifle a bit and see if you can make a new sweet spot.

At the moment you are trying bullet seating depth to improove accuracy. I would try a few other things if you are not happy with the seating depth. As has been mentioned, powders, primers, cases etc.

Also one thing I would do, is take the action out of the stock and examine the bedding under the action and in the barrel channel. Then bed the action if you think it would help. Even on a SPS.

Then I would try different torque settings on the action take down screws. Never know what this may turn up. On one rifle I found that a combination of removing the bedding from under the barrel channel and going from 65in/lb back to 45in/lb made a heck of an improovement in accuracy.

The rifle is setting in a H.S. Pres A2 style stock that I just put on it. I'm gonna keep playing with the load that i have but at longer ranges to see how it does. I'll check the torque on the take down screws and try backing them off to a bit to see if thAt will improve anything. I've heard of this before with the screws.

 

[Mikecr]

How do we accept that the gun has any potential?
You implied that you're using one load somebody suggested, right?
If that's true then why on earth would you do that?
If it's not true, then what have you tried as far as loads -before making seating depth changes?

Tell us, why do you think the gun will shoot?

 

[justgoto]

I used to do the seating depth method, now I set my seating depth to what will work in the mag then change the charge in .2-.3 increments until I find my best charge.

Both my scoped rifles got .58moa at 300 yards after ladder testing, 20 shots and I had my load.

I'll need to do it again to find a winter load; I have noticed a good bit of drop from a 50 degree temp drop.

 

[trevor73402]

How do we accept that the gun has any potential?
You implied that you're using one load somebody suggested, right?
If that's true then why on earth would you do that?
If it's not true, then what have you tried as far as loads -before making seating depth changes?

Tell us, why do you think the gun will shoot?

Maybe I'm reading this out of context or I don't fully grasp the what your trying to say in your post? I started with a good base load that someone suggested to me that works to some degree in many guns of this caliber. I did not say that "joe blow" told me an exact load to shoot and nothing else. I was reccomended the "most common" base components such as the H4350, Fed 215 primers, and told that the Bergers were good to try. These are commonly used components for this particular caliber.

How do we accept the gun has any potential?? I have no idea what the hell your getting at with that statement nor do your comment of "Tell us why you think the gun will shoot". I think the gun will shoot because it does! Did you read my first post?? I didn't say I was getting 3" groups at 100 yds .....I just simply said that i was having to seat my bullets very deep, deeper than I figured normal, and I just wanted to get others opinions on this matter since seating depth with the Bergers seems to be a hot topic. I've never had to load a bullet anywhere close to the depth I'm havin to load these.

To all the others, thanks for your time and your replys.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Additionally-----some tubes just prefer certian bullets. Might try some different weights of the Bergers or the SMK's. My 1K competition rifles prefer the SMK's.