Aim point, which are you?

[SMK1000plus]

I have read that in regards to velocity, however, even a 300 Win Mag drops below 2600 fps inside of 300 yards or even 200 yards. So, is the only bang flop that is created outside of 2600 fps due to spine/shoulder hit?

If you hit the spine above the shoulder, they are always boom-flop but, I have made center of shoulder shots with a flat based 180gr Remington Core-Lokt from a 22" barrel 30-06 that have left them DRT. Those bullets were barely moving 1,700 fps at the 450 yards impact range. I've also on multiple occasions, shot them with 180gr Accu-Bond 300 Win Mag moving at over 2,700 fps at impact, right through both shoulders at under 100 yards, turning their heart and lungs to jelly, and had them run over 150 yards before dropping! I've had boom-flops (DRT) from all kinds of centerfire cartridges at over 200 yards, 243 Win, 25-06, 270 Win, 7mm-08, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 Win, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, even one with a 77gr 223 Rem shoulder shot on a 250+ lbs buck. I've also had lots of 50 yard to 100 yard shoulder shots with those same cartridges where the deer ran well over 50 yards before dropping.

The only guaranteed boom-flop I've found, regardless of impact velocity, has been an upper-end central nervous system (CNS) hit but, I have definitely seen a much higher number of DRT center shoulder shot deer, with higher velocity bullet impacts.

 

[LVJ76]

I have read that in regards to velocity, however, even a 300 Win Mag drops below 2600 fps inside of 300 yards or even 200 yards. So, is the only bang flop that is created outside of 2600 fps due to spine/shoulder hit?

Not necessarily, on larger bore calibers like the .338 and .358 hydrostatic shock can occur at lower speedS, also with a 30 caliber bullet. The smaller the caliber the faster the bullet must impact. The larger the caliber the bigger margin you have.

I've killed several deer with my 7mm-08 with a 139gr SST, all shot behind the shoulder and most dropped in their tracks with no movement afterwards. Muzzle velocity is around 2,800 fps with impact velocities between 2,650 and 1,900 fps. What bullet you use also plays a role on this, a bullet that causes a wide wound channel with good penetration will kill faster.

Now I said "Most". I've had some run 100 to 200 yards and I cant understand why. One I actually hit in the forward part of the shoulder, destroyed heart and lungs and 2" exit hole behind the opposite shoulder and still ran close to 100 yards. How? Why? Don't know, but it did, it was deader than dead but it still ran. With my 7mm Rem Mag I've had better results than with the 7mm-08, more likely to Boom Flop. Now since the bullet is going faster I also use a tougher bullet like the Interbond or Accubond so it doesn't blow up on impact, or a heavier bullet like the 154gr or 162gr SST.

I've also seen DRT's with .223 Rem and .243 Win, proper bullet placement is key along with the right bullet for the task, and also staying within the capable range of the cartridge being used.

 

[BoomFlop]

I have hunted with a 7mm-08 before they we "popular", since probably the mid to late 90's. Got it when I was 16 I believe. Anyway, back then I shot the Hornady Light Magnum 139 gr SP and it did amazing on our whitetails. Pretty much everything dropped with behind shoulder shots under 200 yards. They no longer make that and I have tried contacting Hornady to see what bullet it was with no luck. It expanded awesome with large exits and great penetration. The Hornady Whitetail and Remington CoreLok don't seem to expand much but penetrate well.

My Rem LTR/Swarovski combo shot so dang good, I got it's sibling in 308 Win to try and see if the .30 cal bullet does better ... and because I wanted it. LOL. No experience with the 308 Win so still trying to decide on what factory ammo options to try.

Thanks all,
Steve

 

[Heavyiron]

If i'm hunting deer, i will most of the time to try for the behind the shoulder shot. If i'm hunting in mountainous terrain which georgia has in a lot of the north if it looks like they may be a chance that they can run away then its thru the shoulder. Same applies for elk, if he is in a open basin or a area where he might can run some, behind the shoulder.
Some time back i answered that was thru the shoulders and if he can slide off in a canyon or other steep area it will be thru the shoulders. They tear up meat on an elk but the 225 tsx in 35 whelen gets the nod. I still like cup and core bullets for smaller deer tho.

 

[LVJ76]

I have hunted with a 7mm-08 before they we "popular", since probably the mid to late 90's. Got it when I was 16 I believe. Anyway, back then I shot the Hornady Light Magnum 139 gr SP and it did amazing on our whitetails. Pretty much everything dropped with behind shoulder shots under 200 yards. They no longer make that and I have tried contacting Hornady to see what bullet it was with no luck. It expanded awesome with large exits and great penetration. The Hornady Whitetail and Remington CoreLok don't seem to expand much but penetrate well.

My Rem LTR/Swarovski combo shot so dang good, I got it's sibling in 308 Win to try and see if the .30 cal bullet does better ... and because I wanted it. LOL. No experience with the 308 Win so still trying to decide on what factory ammo options to try.

Thanks all,
Steve

I really like how the SST performs, great expansion and penetration. I've also had great results with Ballistic Silvertips and regular Ballistic Tips.

For the 308 you can try the Hornady Superperformance with the 150gr SST or the Winchester Ammo with the 150gr Ballistic Silvertip.

 

[Clay Target Guy]

As I stated before, I am not the Great White Hunter but most of my deer were shot with a pain old 270 Winchester and 130 Nosler Ballistic tip bullets. Before that (way back in the 70's) I used a 444 Marlin with 240 gr either soft flat nose bullets or hollow points.
I know why deer did boom flops with the 444. I shot center of chest, but way back then the bullets were nothing more that a 44 mag pistol bullet being pushed at around 2400 FPS. You had a small hole going in, and about an inch to 1.5" hole coming out. When you opened the deer up, there was nothing left inside, I mean it was small chucks of jelly. You just rolled the deer over and poured the chest cavity out.
I use to keep track of bang flops with the 270 and best I can remember, I had my longest run was in the high 20's (something like 27-29).
Most but not all were tight behind the shoulder shots (I was a bow hunter back in the day as well).
One deer I can remember that broke the bang flop string was shot with the 270 and it ran a good 150 yards but a chuck of lung and most of its heart were found on the ground right where he was standing when I shot him. I don't remember what bullet I was using but I do remember going back to Nosler after that. (that was back when they came in the red boxes and were in 100 count boxes) I will say, I think today's Noslers are way better as far as consistency goes) When I shot the red box stuff, sometimes it would appear to pencil thru and sometimes it would look like it just blew up. I still got quick kills but I did change bullets for awhile.
I think bullets as a whole have come a long way since then, but still think that speed does play a roll in things. The hyd. shock does seem to make sense to me, maybe that is it, I don't know.

 

[TwoMore]

no matter the velocity , the key is to transfer the highest amount of the bullets energy on the animal without fragging the bullet or blowing out the other side with minimal energy transferred like in my pic from earlier post the deer I double lunged didnt even look hit it just ran off,but there was serious clockwork strewed where he was standing. so I imagine the bullet was still moving good after it passed through. if you shoot a rifle that is not magnum caliber a bullet with less sectional density is needed. I wouldn't shoot a partition in a 243 win. but a 90 grain BT will dropum. my youngest son shoots a 223 wssm with a 60 grain partition at 3800 that will destroy meat and turn the inside to haggis but my 338 rum just puts a nice hole in them and the meat is not jelly. over the past ten years I have just moved away from lung or heart shots, just to much dead running, neck or high shoulder just works better for me in the thickets and swamps we hunt

 

[Ingwe]

I don't understand why some of you would aim for the high shoulder/spine shot because if you shoot high then your bullet can go over the spine or just hit shoulder bone, leaving you with a wounded animal. It seems that allot of guys using Bergers use this hold.

If you aim just behind the shoulder you have a 4" margin of error if your shot is off.

I know that some guys here never miss their exact aiming point but I do so that's where I aim.

 

[TwoMore]

even if you do manage to make a bad shot and shoot just above the spine they drop,still breaks their spine. if you hit shoulder bone you hit spine or neck or demolish both lungs and take out running gear. and if you shoot to high you missed and they live. If you are off on boiler room shots and hit one lung or guts they usually are found with buzzards the next week or scouting the next season. myself and my two sons put up 10 to 12 deer a year and this is just what we have moved to. I cant remember that last time we lost one. but my tracking skills are sharp from tracking friends so called behind the shoulder shots that went wide, or even perfect hit boiler room dead runners. I have had to track far more behind the shoulder shots (and lost far to many) than cns shots , thats all I understand