Adequate Cartridge for Elk???

With choices it's sometimes beneficial to examine the "whys" to a choice rather than solely "what" choice is made. Not everyone hunts in the same terrain, same weather, same band of harvest range, has the same shooting experience, has the same precision potential hunting firearm, and so on.
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I have not shot as much game as many here. I have been lucky enough to do it in many places. Initial experiences largely hardcore jungle, and those initial ones are often what shape ones thinking.

We used to bait bear, a friend used to take guys out to pay for expenses so I'd help out where need be. We'd get guys in, give our input on what to shoot, where to shoot it. Get the Jack O'Connor .270 shot placement, WDM Bell elephant story, and come back to find a guy shaking in the road "I shot a bear" Cool where's he at? "He went that way" So why did you come this way?

Something about looking at a big bear disappear into the brush at dark that will challenge a guys confidence about his equipment. Kind of like sitting on Cape Canaveral rethinking the science of "O" ring technology.

Archery guys did better as they realized you had to miss that big arm to penetrate vitals. We put hounds on tracks and still failed to find many. Our best site had 5 big bear shot there, one recovered, the one I shot with a .375 H&H. Our kids had great success one shot one kills. .375 Winchester, .44 mag carbine low velocity not overpowering, but we did not advertise them as blow em over in their tracks, but as a limited technology used within set parameters excellent results. The kids were conscious of anatomy demonstrated on game type targets, and aware to wait for the shot we asked of them. Never lost a bear to the guys with .338's etc. Did get a 2AM call to find one that made it into the brush (25 yards tops) apparently a .338 KT doesn't look as big in the woods as it did in the store either.

Bullets, bullets, bullets. When mission parameters change, change your equipment. Most of what we saw were close range failures as baits were 15-25 yards. Putting a bigger case behind the same bullet may not increase it's lethality.

Anatomy, physiology, and even the psychology of animals varies within a species. Old battlers got that way not laying down and dying in hard times. Seasonal changes in body type, a spring bear is not as hard a target as a fall bear.

If you're planning on blowing through thick hide, muscle, bone, fat, and sometimes multiple layers of each, use a technology that favors success. A 220 grain Nosler Partition .308 works great up close in the above situations. Move up into the alpine on the same bear at range and the 215 Berger might have the best specifications for that scenario.

The same applies to .243's, I have no doubt I could send a kid with bigngreen out elk hunting with a .243 and get back a happy kid. I also know he's going to set it up within the parameters of that technology, and the conditions on the ground. He isn't going to try breaking both shoulders with it. Or break it down from the rear. See I got back to elk, long way around the barn perhaps.

Maybe even let's come back tomorrow is the correct choice. We are having fun right?

Being a traveler that may not have tomorrow can be a factor in your decision as well.
 
Maybe even let's come back tomorrow is the correct choice. We are having fun right?

Being a traveler that may not have tomorrow can be a factor in your decision as well.

Great experiences well placed together! Life's adventures provide a foundation for those decisions. Add total confidence in knowing the outcome of a decision before transpiring and the two together foster an environment ripe for enjoying the moment and the outcome soon to follow.
 
Im heading to the bob marshall this fall for elk. Have an arsenal of adequate rifles, but I'm leaning towards my only cooper. It's a 7-08 and I am hoping it will do great. Inside 400 i just point and shoot as I am very familiar inside those ranges with this rifle. Max would be 500 with this gun I would guess. Still a long poke. With any other gun I have (bigger, faster) My max range is 600, so i think I'm not really giving up much here. Wonder what your thoughts are on this.

snookntarpon
 
Im a big fan of the .257 Weatherby, i use it for everything i hunt, from elk to antelope and it has never let me down, i have had the big magnums etc. but i was never comfortable shooting them, for me it comes down to accuracy and i feel comfortable shooting this cartridge compared to my old 300 / 338 mags. Shoot what you feel comfortable with! My son uses a 7x57 and has taken several nice animals with it including a nice bull and several big bucks.
 
Yes placement is everything. But Elk are extremely tough critters. Id recommend as much bang as you can handle and comfortably shoot. You want to hit them as hard as you can. I use a lot of 6.5s for deer, antelope. But I grad the 300 when it comes to elk.
 
Yes placement is everything. But Elk are extremely tough critters. Id recommend as much bang as you can handle and comfortably shoot. You want to hit them as hard as you can. I use a lot of 6.5s for deer, antelope. But I grad the 300 when it comes to elk.


I utterly and completely disagree. In fact, I would say that the point of this whole thread is to refute the claim that bigger is somehow better. Elk are extremely tough? I have heard the same thing said about bucks, hogs, bears, moose, lions, etc. Anything and everything with a gunshot through vital organs dies. Bigger is not better. Hitting the vitals is ALL THERE IS. I guess you missed the part where the 7 Mauser was used to kill hundreds of head of the largest, most dangerous animals on the planet.
 
How much difference in diameter is the .243 and 7mm, that people make such a big deal out of NOT using a .243 ???
The answer is .275. Not very much of a difference.............
 
BIGGER IS BETTER when it comes to Elk. just my 2 cents. If you can shoot it comfortably / accurately and know your rifle. Im not going to get into an argument over which caliber, it all comes down to doing your job and respect for the animal. All I was saying in the previous post was I grab my 300 over my favorite 6.5 when it comes to elk.
 
I have a big hunting rifle. I can't shoot more than 3 rounds. I don't even want to shoot it anymore. It's just not fun.

My .243, I can sit at the range for 2 hours, no problem.
 
I agree shoot as big as you csn handle. Some people are more recoil sensitive than others. I used to shoot an unbraked 300win for a target rifle. I now have a 300with a brake because it is more fun at the range but I rezero it without the brake before hunting season and hunt without the brake. If I plug one right with a big rifle and it gets away I wont have to wonder well "what if". Practice as often as you can and in as many different positions as you can with as big a rifle as you can shoot comfortably. If that is a 243 then rock on with it. If it is a 338whatever thenall the better. I would recomend a 30/06 as mminimum though thats just my .02
 
How much difference in diameter is the .243 and 7mm, that people make such a big deal out of NOT using a .243 ???
The answer is .275. Not very much of a difference.............

I don't know where you got your math from, but 7mm is .284, so the difference is .041. But multiply that by at least three to make up for expansion and you get .123. That is significant if you ask me. Factor in a .30 caliber or a .338 and it gets even more significant. A bigger hole is never going to hinder you.
 
I have a big hunting rifle. I can't shoot more than 3 rounds. I don't even want to shoot it anymore. It's just not fun.

My .243, I can sit at the range for 2 hours, no problem.

As backyardsniper wrote, put a brake on it. You can always take it off to hunt.
 
I snipe 1/2 L water bottles at 350-400 yds with my 223. I don't miss, as long as the wind isn't a factor. With my preferred big game hunting load, I do almost as well, though I shoot it less often, and I'm at the limit of what my gun will group. It took a lot of shooting to get to that point, because recoil, muzzle blast, noise, etc are factors until one masters them. The long-range forum is not the place to belabor this point, because long-range shooters understand these things all too well, but this thread was started by someone wanting to know what an adequate elk cartridge is.

My replies here, given my general experience with elk hunters, center around the idea that any cartridge you can shoot and hit what you are aiming at every time is the one to use. If that is a 24 cal, then it will work. I know of guys that hunt with 22-250's and shoot the heart, which is legal in Mt. If it is a 338-378, then that is a reasonable choice. Magnum-type power just isn't necessary, and often is a detriment to those who don't shoot often, and some that do.

So the question of adequate for elk is not one of a power level, but one of accurate shooting. A gut-shot bull shot with a 338 RUM can run for miles, and good luck finding him, but a heart-shot bull shot with any legal caliber won't make it 200 yds, and likely not more than a few steps. Arguing for more power makes no sense in this regard. As powerful as you can shoot just because it's an elk has been the reason for ALL of the lost animals that I've been witness to. The adequate cartridge is the one you can hit the vitals with. End of story.
 
22-250. Really I mean yeah theoreticly it's possible does that mean its a good idea, not really. Sure I would shoot an elk in his ear hole at 100yds with a 22-250 if all I had was a 22-250. Then again if I was say 3 yds away I would stick him with a spear or if we were in the bed of a truck together I might hit him in the head with a hammer but odds are not good on us being In a picpickup truck bed or being 3 yds away or probably not100yds. Take a look in the classified adds on here and see how may 22-250 and 243 elk hammers you see advertised. In spite of what your mom may have told you sometimes you should just do what everyone else is doing.
Here is something to think on. If you were on a breech/building take down team and you had to raid a building full of bad guys and you had your choice of entry weapon 223 semi auto or 308 semi auto which one would you take?.....exactly its all about hydrostatic shock and knock down power. I choose the 308 because I want the bad guy dead right now not in 30seconds after he has shot me back. I chose 338 for elk because I want him dead right now and not in 3hours after I have chased him all over the mountain.
 
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