My buddy and I had 2 cow tags apiece for area 63 in wyoming. We went over on a Sunday evening and on monday morning a storm came with snow and cooler temps. The morning was not that great but as the day went on things got better, we found a little bunch of elk that looked liked not to bad of a pack. We left from the truck about 2pm and went to try to get a shot. My buddy had never shot an elk so we made a stalk after we had them spotted. He was shooting a 6.5x284 and I shoot a 260, we got to a setup at 460yds turned up to our MOA and did a 1 2 3, boom two elk down one shot in the head and one right behind the shoulder, chamber another round another cow down and another. Needless to say my buddy got to shoot his first two elk at 460 wow. All four cow elk ended up in the bottom of the draw within a hundred yards of one another. The price you pay is the hard work getting them out but the reward is so wonderful at the dinner table. Praise the Lord for elk meat.
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trucraft
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Wow, 460yrd head shot. Thats impressive.
Topgun 30-06
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IMHO it's pretty irresponsible to talk about a head shot at that distance whether it was intentional or not. Those are the types of things that make many people rile against LR hunting! Impressive---NOT!!!
JOHNNIE WALKER
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Well, he obviously made the shot, so I consider it impressive. My farthest head shot is 320. I would love to beat that. A head shot dosent damage the meat, and ensures the heart and liver will find their way to the skillet. Meat is why we hunt. Antlers are pretty but don't taste to good. I also love elk meat, so enjoy your harvest!
Topgun 30-06
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Please take it somewhere else! Consider it whatever you want, but anybody that espouses head shots at long range and then brags about it like you and the OP are is doing a disservice to everyone out there. A head shot at distance is not the proper way to kill an animal and anyone doing it needs to rethink what a 100% sure and humane shot is and it's not the small head area of a big game animal. The head is too small and moves enough that in the time it takes to squeeze the trigger and get the bullet to it's destination there is a huge chance of a miss, or even worse a terrible wound that will be lethal, but not for a lengthy period of time until the animal starves to death. How would you like to die that way? Do yourself and all of us out there that know what we're doing a big favor and please don't publicize your philosophy out on the open internet. Hunting has enough problems without people like yourself talking about head shooting game at long distance! A shot in the vitals where you should be aiming will not do any damage to more than a pound or two of meat and is what 99.9% of people that hunt shoot for. Please rethink your poor philosophy because you're in a very, very small percentage of people that are doing it!
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rooster740
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So shooting a coyote or rock chuck at 1200 yards is okay? Or a deer in the chest at 1500 yards is fine?
You're bringing me down 30-06!
Topgun 30-06
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What in the haydes does your question have to do with head shots that we're discussing on this thread? You brought yourself down with that dumb post!!!
JOHNNIE WALKER
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Your more than entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is obviously different than others. Is it really worth insulting people over? I'm my "opinion" that's extreemly immature and childish. There's a chance for critical error in any shot, and it's true that the smaller the kill zone is the larger the chance of making a mistake. But as ethical hunters we must have a high level of confidence in any shot we take on game. If the OP and his friend were confident in their shot, good for them, the freezer full of meat no doubt adds to their confidence. I'm sure if they weren't confident they could make the shot they wouldn't of tried it. Fact is fact and there is no faster more humane way to kill an animal than instantly shutting down the brain. When this happens death is instant, not in a few minutes, or half an hour later, and no tracking is required.
Personally, I've made a lot of head shots in my life, but I truly felt the situation was right when I did it, and I've passed on several head shots and took body shots because of the situation at hand. To me, the animal should die as fast as possible.
This is of course my "opinion", and I'm sure the OP would agree with me. As an adult, I really don't see the need to insult any one over an opinion like this. As an adult, I prefer to handle serious issues with people face to face. So from here out, how about we keep this conversation mature.
Personally, I've made a lot of head shots in my life, but I truly felt the situation was right when I did it, and I've passed on several head shots and took body shots because of the situation at hand. To me, the animal should die as fast as possible.
This is of course my "opinion", and I'm sure the OP would agree with me. As an adult, I really don't see the need to insult any one over an opinion like this. As an adult, I prefer to handle serious issues with people face to face. So from here out, how about we keep this conversation mature.
rooster740
Well-Known Member
I am not going to get into a contest to see who can urinate the highest on the fence with you.
I was tired from hunting 18 hours a day for the past 4 weeks, so I made my post brief in support of the OP. I will explain it so you may understand, okay?
A three inch target(elk brain) at 480 yards is roughly .625 moa, maybe you do not shoot that good, but others do it every day. The op and his partner killed 4 elk in seconds so it sounds to me like they had the situation handled.
Now back to the subject of your confusion. A coyote has a chest size kill zone of 6 x12 inch kill zone. At 1200 yards that is .5 moa. Aught six are you catching on? So a white tail deer in my opinion in my area has a 10" kill zone. At 1500 yards that is.666666 moa with a lot more opportunity for environmental error.
I am so sorry to confuse any readers of my post. It is 4:50 am and I have to go saddle horses now, I have made myself late but I am happy to clear up my "dumb post"
happy hunting!
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Nope, no need for any kind of contest and I'm not confused at all because you and Mr. Walker are forgetting the one BIG factor in both of your comments! The figures in your post don't mean squat when the chest of a coyote and deer aren't constantly MOVING around like the HEAD on an animal does. Nobody should be shooting at that part of a big game animal that is constantly moving because you dang sure don't have any idea when or which way it's going to go (left or right, up or down---get the idea?). Most that have been around the block a few times know there is even a chance of wounding a big game animal at long distance when shooting at the vitals if it happens to move just as you squeeze the trigger, but you still have a lot bigger vital zone to hit and kill the animal humanely if that happens than shooting at the head! Yes, there is no argument that hitting the brain causes instant death and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that! It's the fact that you're basically shooting at a moving target and at long distance that is a bigger gamble than you should be taking than shooting at the body.
PS: I've been hunting/shooting since 1953 and just got back from 7 weeks out in Wyoming hunting deer, elk, antelope and prairie dogs, so I do get around in the field just a tad and am not just speaking from a lack of experience like some arm chair quarterback. Hope you guys are having some good hunts this year!!!
gillettehunter
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Hi there Topgun. I thought about this overnight before deciding to post. I normally agree with your posts. Usually good common sense. This one has a couple of ands, ifs and buts in it. I have a friend that usually head shots his antelope and sometimes his deer. Not my shot of choice for the reasons you espouse. He sometimes shoots over 5,000 rds a year. When he shoots he is 99% percent certain of where his shot will hit. He is just that good of marksman/sniper. I consider him ethical with those kind of shots, because of the practice and how well he knows his rifle. IF the OP has that kind of skill then I would consider it ethical. If not WELL practiced then I would not. I don't know his skill level so I'm not going to cast stones.
You and I are not going to take that shot. Thats just fine. I wouldn't advise it as a general rule either. Maybe we are more cautious which isn't bad. We've seen what a little wind will do or a animal move its head suddenly.....
If you make it by Gillette stop by and say hi. Bruce
You and I are not going to take that shot. Thats just fine. I wouldn't advise it as a general rule either. Maybe we are more cautious which isn't bad. We've seen what a little wind will do or a animal move its head suddenly.....
If you make it by Gillette stop by and say hi. Bruce
cohunter14
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Congrats to the OP on the success! Four elk in that short of time is pretty impressive!
Let's leave the ethics talk out of it. Keep in mind that ethics are not to be spoke of here. Everyone is going to have an opinion, but let's not take away from the OP's success.
Let's leave the ethics talk out of it. Keep in mind that ethics are not to be spoke of here. Everyone is going to have an opinion, but let's not take away from the OP's success.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Nobody is taking away from the success the OP and his buddy had on their hunt. However, the fact is that he wouldn't have made the post if the shot had torn off the jaw of that cow and it had gone off to suffer a miserable death! It doesn't matter how great you are on paper or gongs or how many rounds you shoot a year to put all of them in an inch or two way out on them. It's the fact that those don't move like the head of a live animal. I thought this website was dedicated to learning about proper long range hunting equipment, etc. and it's my understanding that long range hunting is to be done just like other types and that is to kill the animal with as close to 100% certainty as possible. Therefore, I don't see how anyone, no matter how great they are and how much they practice can justify shooting at the very small MOVING head of an animal! If I knew that the head wasn't going to move I'm certainly good enough that I could take those shots instead of at the body, so the argument that many people make that only people that can't do something have a problem with it doesn't fly with me! Thanks for listening to my side of it and I'll not make any more posts on this thread because there is really nothing more to be said to those who don't agree. Everyone have a great holiday season!
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