I attended a weekend shoot with my 6.5 PRC recently. Sighting in with factory ammo the velocities were a bit faster than normal but groups were acceptable. Midway through the first day I began to have bullet integrity issues. I thought it was an ammo problem but I cleaned the bore at lunch anyway. Later that day bullet issues got worse; but I had brought my new borescope. Shooters more experienced than I used it to check the bore and showed me the carbon ring build up in the throat. After removing the ring I went to the sight in range. The velocities had dropped 120 fps (back to normal) and the groups shrank to less than 1/2 moa. I had no further problems the second day. Now I know to diagnose MV/grouping issues and find the source.
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Accuracy And Bore Scopes
- Thread starter ButterBean
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nt7332
Well-Known Member
I use a borescope about every time I clean a rifle. They will really tattle on your cleaning job and let u know what u need to work more on whether that carbon, copper or both. Also if u your regiment is pretty extended u can keep an eye on carbon rings and keep an eye on throat condition. For the price of them now they are a fine investment for anyone that shoots a good bit!
Long time lurking first time for a post. I bought a Teslong. It is very cool to look at in my different barrels. The $50 was cheap new toy for me. For now this is still American and you can decide if you do or don't want one. I would happily pay the same amount or more for some one to publish pictures or video of barrels showing light, moderate and heavy carbon ring, copper fowling, fire cracking, etc... is there a youtube video?
Winkmeister
Member
Is Teslong the only brand worthy of consideration at this point? (in time and price...)
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
It is a tool for higher learning. You don't have to have one to shoot well, but in my opinion, you do If you want to improve. It is the only good way to tell how we/you are taking care of that expensive barrel, what effect you loads have on it, where it's best accuracy state is, Anticipate accuracy loss, firing rate damage and many other potential problems.
There is probably some truth in ignorance is bliss, but some like to know what is ahead and what improvement can be made. For these people, a bore scope is almost mandatory and very educational.
Expense is always an issue, but now you can spend anywhere from $80.00 to several thousand dollars for a bore scope that will do the job. Cheaper ones, don't have the angle mirrors (A must if you want to look at the overall barrel and chamber) and are just slightly better than a bore light.
It's like a car with two devices for oil condition. The dip stick tells you that you may be low on oil.
The trouble light tells you you may have screwed up and the engine. which one is preventive and which one is fatal. For a barrel, the bore scope is the dip stick.
It also becomes a tool for trouble shooting other problems that other people are having and a must tool for evaluating used firearms for purchase. You can look down a barrel that has been cleaned well And most of the time it will look to be in good shape, but when viewed with a good bore scope, It can be scary.
I could not do without mine now that I have them.
PS: If you are one of those that don't clean your rifle until accuracy falls off, I don't recommend getting a bore scope because you won't like what you see.
J E CUSTOM
Martin@Hin
Well-Known Member
I have been playing with a Hawkeye for 15 or so years.
They are a useful tool in several as mentioned above ways.
But the one thing it taught me is the pic. from a borescope tells you nothing about accuracy from a barrel.
It tells you that custom barrels like Pac Nore,lilja,Douglass etc are beautiful and probably will shoot as well as say Sako's.
It will also tell you that a .3" @100y 6.5 CR Savage can not be doing that with a barrel like it has!!
I have 2 94 Winch Rifles a 32 and a 30 30 both have ridiculous bad bores and still shoot 1"@100 with my bad eyesight and open sights.
So go figure
They are a useful tool in several as mentioned above ways.
But the one thing it taught me is the pic. from a borescope tells you nothing about accuracy from a barrel.
It tells you that custom barrels like Pac Nore,lilja,Douglass etc are beautiful and probably will shoot as well as say Sako's.
It will also tell you that a .3" @100y 6.5 CR Savage can not be doing that with a barrel like it has!!
I have 2 94 Winch Rifles a 32 and a 30 30 both have ridiculous bad bores and still shoot 1"@100 with my bad eyesight and open sights.
So go figure
That's what I was getting at, Thank you for the inputI have been playing with a Hawkeye for 15 or so years.
They are a useful tool in several as mentioned above ways.
But the one thing it taught me is the pic. from a borescope tells you nothing about accuracy from a barrel.
It tells you that custom barrels like Pac Nore,lilja,Douglass etc are beautiful and probably will shoot as well as say Sako's.
It will also tell you that a .3" @100y 6.5 CR Savage can not be doing that with a barrel like it has!!
I have 2 94 Winch Rifles a 32 and a 30 30 both have ridiculous bad bores and still shoot 1"@100 with my bad eyesight and open sights.
So go figure
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I have been playing with a Hawkeye for 15 or so years.
They are a useful tool in several as mentioned above ways.
But the one thing it taught me is the pic. from a borescope tells you nothing about accuracy from a barrel.
It tells you that custom barrels like Pac Nore,lilja,Douglass etc are beautiful and probably will shoot as well as say Sako's.
It will also tell you that a .3" @100y 6.5 CR Savage can not be doing that with a barrel like it has!!
I have 2 94 Winch Rifles a 32 and a 30 30 both have ridiculous bad bores and still shoot 1"@100 with my bad eyesight and open sights.
So go figure
The bore scope is one of the first tools I use to evaluate barrel quality before I start the build.
If the bore is quality lapped and rifled, the bore scope will show you.
Next is barrel bore straightness. It wont show this unless it is very bad. If you start with a quality barrel that meets all of the requirements It only means that you have a chance of building a quality, accurate rifle. It does not guarantee accuracy, only the possibility if all other factors are addressed/managed.
There are many other factors that control accuracy. but a good barrel does not necessarily mean accuracy. A poor barrel can shoot 1 MOA, but it cant shoot sub 1/10th MOA. A great barrel is the heart of any accurate rifle, but it is only a part of the needs of an accurate rifle. The largest portion
is the sum of all the quality components and the ammo we feed it. Then there is the human factor
added to all of the other factors. This is probably the single most contributing factor to accuracy.
An unskilled shooter can do better in most cases with an accurate rifle. but the same rifle in the hands of a master shooter, can be amazing. Many new shooters believe that if they buy the latest and most talked about cartridge, that they will automatically shoot like the experts, and if they don't instantly out shoot everyone else, Its the rifles fault.
The bore scope wont help these folks.
J E CUSTOM
Martin@Hin
Well-Known Member
J I wholeheartedly agree with your statement no doubt .
I am just amazed that some barrels like the 94 's that have hardly 50% rifling or lets say a .5 rifle but with heavy length wise gouge marks on top off the lands still can shoot!
I have a 308 with a sorta ok barrel and it does 5 shots in 77mm @ 500 mtr that blows me away.
Regards M
This is exactly what I'm trying to say, I have seen barrels that you could see pits,dirt crevasses, you name it and shoot like a house on fire, I am a half MOA shooter at my best and my 308 will do that all day long and has been for an decade, I didn't clean it for 450 rounds or so it was still a half to 3/4 minute Rig, I cleaned it last week and I mean scrubbed and I can assure you if I look at it with a bore scope its still gonna have something in it somewhere, I shot 50 rounds out of it today and its still a half minute Rig,J I wholeheartedly agree with your statement no doubt .
I am just amazed that some barrels like the 94 's that have hardly 50% rifling or lets say a .5 rifle but with heavy length wise gouge marks on top off the lands still can shoot!
I have a 308 with a sorta ok barrel and it does 5 shots in 77mm @ 500 mtr that blows me away.
Regards M
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Martin@Hin
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I'm trying to say, I have seen barrels that you could see pits,dirt crevasses, you name it and shoot like a house on fire, I am a half MOA shooter at my best and my 308 will do that all day long and has been for an decade, I didn't clean it for 450 rounds or so it was still a half to 3/4 minute Rig, I cleaned it last week and I mean scrubbed and I can assure you if I look at it with a bore scope its still gonna have something in it somewhere, I shot 50 rounds out of it today and its still a half minute Rig,
B.B.
Yes I would not be without a B. scope but would not discard a rifle on what I see with a scope alone.
I have shot HEAVILY pitted old black powder guns with hard cast bullets to fill the holes so to speak and than fire jacked bullets at moderate pressure's just fine.
It won't be 500 yard rifle but in good condition it will make grandpa's meat better back in action on a Sunday afternoon family shoot.
Lol
Regards Martin
I have a bore scope. What will amaze you is how well some barrels will shoot being as rough as they are. I think I could get by with out it. It's a fun tool to have. I don't think it's a must have thing. I mostly use mine to look in a new barrel and inspect before I decide to put the barrel on. There's the camp of guys that want to clean all the copper out down to bare metal. I guess it's good for those guys. I'm not one of those guys.
Very well said. I've heard people make the statement " my rifle will put them all in the same hole no matter what ammo I use in it". Wow, they either have one of the most accurate rifles ever made in history or they are shooting at 25 yards. Even the best rifles don't regularly shoot in the 1s or 2s with poorly loaded factory ammo of all kinds.
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
Agree 100% I also have a savage factory barrel that doesn't shoot good until it has some fouling in it. Cleaning it to bare metal reduces accuracy until its shot some. I wouldn't want to see that one with a borescope!
