I'm starting to see too that Norma brass on 9/10 suppliers sites have listed the it as discontinued. Not sure what the deal with that is... the price also ranges from $1.58 to $2.40 per case on the places that claim to be out of stock.
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Doublezranch
Well-Known Member
I tried Bertram one time. Bought 200 because I heard lots of success stories. I shot 3 cases and split the shoulder on all three. Up for sale they went. Back to Norma for me. Like every component this game there are some that work for your set up and some that don't. Bertram does put out a quality product, just not for everyone's application.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
no wsm brass from starline, I'd try some if they had it-- I shoot lots of starline pistol (straight-wall brass) and its good (9mm, 10mm, 357, 44m, 45c) I tried the 6.8spc starline brass and it was not as good as S&B or the old SSA brass (pre-nosler)
starline just started making bottleneck brass about 5 years ago or so, so they are fairly new to the rifle/bottleneck case market --they will make custom brass, and custom headstamp brass if you want to order in huge quantities
Sent an email to Bertram USA. Waiting on a reply!
300 whby
Active Member
I had the same problem with 50 338 Edge cases, neck thickness was all over the place, I was just about changing the neck bushing for every case to get anywhere near consistent neck tension, went back to forming 300 Rum cases which were excellent...For Rem cases !!
So...
I have been calling Bertram USA since this ad was posted. Sent 3 emails and have yet to receive any kind of response at all. Went to last resort and contacted Grafs where the brass was purchased. This is what I was told... get ready!
He told me I'd have to call in my measurements to him so he could compare them to SAAMI specs of the case. Then he would have to call Bertram to see what their tolerances were beings that's confidential information within their company. He told me the weight of each brass didn't matter at all as long as they were SAAMI spec. I went on to assure him that some were .10+ short. Some weights were off so bad that I would think they didn't have any kind of QC at all.
The neck thickness was off... Every aspect or dimension of the brass was off. He then stated that he'd have to get with Bertram to see if those were their specs. Lol
He told me he didn't have any in stock to replace mine with (like I wanted anymore of this trash) and that if I had opened any of it up they couldnt accept the return because it had been considered "modified". If I had any that hadn't been opened up yet that they would charge me a 10% restocking fee and resale it. Lol. It blew my mind. 1, how was I supposed to know it was good or bad through the packaging? 2, they would really sell this crap to somebody after it had been sent back because of a quality issue? I think 2 companies lost a customer today... I know I'm not a concern to them but I won't spend a dime with anybody that won't stand behind a product they sell Or manufacture.
$300 down the drain...
never again.
I have been calling Bertram USA since this ad was posted. Sent 3 emails and have yet to receive any kind of response at all. Went to last resort and contacted Grafs where the brass was purchased. This is what I was told... get ready!
He told me I'd have to call in my measurements to him so he could compare them to SAAMI specs of the case. Then he would have to call Bertram to see what their tolerances were beings that's confidential information within their company. He told me the weight of each brass didn't matter at all as long as they were SAAMI spec. I went on to assure him that some were .10+ short. Some weights were off so bad that I would think they didn't have any kind of QC at all.
The neck thickness was off... Every aspect or dimension of the brass was off. He then stated that he'd have to get with Bertram to see if those were their specs. Lol
He told me he didn't have any in stock to replace mine with (like I wanted anymore of this trash) and that if I had opened any of it up they couldnt accept the return because it had been considered "modified". If I had any that hadn't been opened up yet that they would charge me a 10% restocking fee and resale it. Lol. It blew my mind. 1, how was I supposed to know it was good or bad through the packaging? 2, they would really sell this crap to somebody after it had been sent back because of a quality issue? I think 2 companies lost a customer today... I know I'm not a concern to them but I won't spend a dime with anybody that won't stand behind a product they sell Or manufacture.
$300 down the drain...
never again.
Rhovee
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2017
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- 1,600
With how inconsistent there brass is, I don't see them lasting around to long. There only niche was the cases that no one else were producing. I purchased some 28 Nosler when it first came out. Was very disappointed and won't buy there brass again either.
2 places can consider me gone unless grafs reaches back out to make things right. I told them I'd take a store credit. If they can't do that then they can drag their tongue up a mules butt. I understand they didn't make the product but they sold it to me... I got it from them. I found an issue. I called them back. Now they're trying to push the situation around. I send it back to them, they send it back to whoever they got it from. Problem solved!
cohunt
Well-Known Member
not to be a jerk, but I havent seen anything in writing where any brass manufacture guarantees any sort or consistency or tolerances
also here is the description from graffs web page"Due to the packaging and shipping process, case necks are often slightly dinged or bent and need to be rounded up and sized to give proper neck tension. New and/or fired cases must be full-length resized or have the expander ball of the sizing die run through the case neck prior to loading. New, unprimed brass. Imported from Australia. This is not loaded ammunition. " -- doesn't sound anything like "consistent" brass
Heck, they don't even claim to call it "match grade brass" like some of the others, lots of different brands of brass I have gotten has been shorter than saami specs too--- I have seen that peterson has their "hand select match grade brass that they state is within .001" from the factory and with in 1 grain consistency lots"-- they are about the only ones actually putting it in writing, I don't think even Lapua or nosler has anything in writing about consistency
I fully understand your plight as I have wsm rifles too, hard to find quality brass for the wsm right now-- but there seems to be no claims as to consistency from bertram nor graffs on the brass you bought --if you want unconditional/ no questions asked returns, then brownells has 300wsm hornady brass in stock right now --they put it in writing : https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=16872
also here is the description from graffs web page"Due to the packaging and shipping process, case necks are often slightly dinged or bent and need to be rounded up and sized to give proper neck tension. New and/or fired cases must be full-length resized or have the expander ball of the sizing die run through the case neck prior to loading. New, unprimed brass. Imported from Australia. This is not loaded ammunition. " -- doesn't sound anything like "consistent" brass
Heck, they don't even claim to call it "match grade brass" like some of the others, lots of different brands of brass I have gotten has been shorter than saami specs too--- I have seen that peterson has their "hand select match grade brass that they state is within .001" from the factory and with in 1 grain consistency lots"-- they are about the only ones actually putting it in writing, I don't think even Lapua or nosler has anything in writing about consistency
I fully understand your plight as I have wsm rifles too, hard to find quality brass for the wsm right now-- but there seems to be no claims as to consistency from bertram nor graffs on the brass you bought --if you want unconditional/ no questions asked returns, then brownells has 300wsm hornady brass in stock right now --they put it in writing : https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=16872
I appreciate your response and you going to the extent of finding these things.
Although it doesn't justify their poor quality.
I can understand dented necks and cases as I have had this happen with all names of brass. I can't understand their inconsistency and I'm missing something here that you're trying to justify apparently. I wouldn't expect any brass to show up that was unusable. I prep from primer pocket to case mouth. Always have regardless of make or model. That's beside the point....
I'm not happy with my product so all I did was ask for a refund because I'm an unhappy customer and these are not up to par for loading in anything or with the price they ask.
I'm not arguing with your statements. By all means, regardless of manufacturer or what it is, if product is not up to at least usable condition then it's trash. No way around it. I have never in my life saw such terrible quality in all of my loading history.
My thoughts exactly... and before this explosion of negative feedback in it, I never heard one bad thing! NEVER!
I guess back to norma I go.
