A sneek peek.......

[Nomosendero]

Its NOT going to be a rifle for every shooter. There's more involved than your "normal" in-line rifle. It will however be a long range shooter and accurate. It will have the Lothar Walter barrel, just not the match grade barrel. It will be built on the Rem 700 short action and come with the XMark Pro trigger. Although it will be capable of 4-50gr pellets, it will most likely shoot better with 3 - T7M pellets.

Yes, I have a lot of research to do before I lay down the cash. I would prefer a system that will use
Blackhorn 209, looks like this may not be it, at least in the present form:
Blackhorn209-12 - NORTH AMERICAN MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

It is interesting to see other options:
crazy knight build | Doug's Message Boards

In the end I may just get my old Rem 700ML built up!

 

[b.kleynhans]

As for the further away dilemma I've got something on the way for that too , busy getting all the parts together for a .451 cal with 1:22 twist that should be able to reach to 600 yards with paper patched 450 to 480 gr bullets.

 

[ENCORE]

Yes, I have a lot of research to do before I lay down the cash. I would prefer a system that will use
Blackhorn 209, looks like this may not be it, at least in the present form:
Blackhorn209-12 - NORTH AMERICAN MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

It is interesting to see other options:
crazy knight build | Doug's Message Boards

In the end I may just get my old Rem 700ML built up!

REGARDLESS........... AGAIN......... REGARDLESS......... what TB says about the ignition........... HE'S NOT (not, NOT, not,NOT) CORRECT.

I read that same article, not once but many times. TB has no clue (none, notta) about the ignition system of the Rem Ultimate or the Ultimate Firearms rifles. He admits he's shot one, what... once (UF) and he's making an assumption?!

Here's the flat out truth...... TB is wrong and I pointed it out to him in an email and fairly tactfully. However, talk about calling someone's baby ugly??? He wanted to respond not having a clue what he was talking about but, certainly bragging continuously about how great a shot he is and that "No one has shot as much BH as I have, other than at the manufacturer. PERIOD". Also the mention that he didn't think I'd ever used BH............

Through an exchange of emails, he did his best to tell me I was wrong, when I'm one that DOES have first hand experience, a lot of it. By the way, I saved all those emails and exchanges. I have no idea where he's coming from but, if he doesn't get a free rifle or equipment, he lets off nothing but negativity.

Now........ there was absolutely no convincing him he was wrong so, what did he do? He copied and sent all my emails to Randy at Ultimate Firearms. Funny as hell. Reason I know he did that, was that I received an email from Randy stating that he did and also a thank you from Randy for: "Good job straightening out Toby! Well done !"

The ignition system in the new Remington Ultimate, is the same system in the Ultimate Firearms rifles. Remington purchased the right to use the patent. The only difference that I'm aware of in the ignition, is that the UF uses a .45 Winchester Magnum brass and the RU will use, I think, a cut .308 case.

For a FACT............ an UF rifle will ignite BH209. With the identical breech plug ignition system, using a LMRP, why won't a RU? I've shot BH209 through my own Ultimate and believe me, it ignites with a LMRP. Now I'm not sure that one may want to shoot BH from the rifle and instead, shoot 3-T7M pellets. Now here's something you're going to tell me I'm crazy about.......... I'd rather clean the rifle after shooting 3-T7M pellets a dozen times, than I would shooting a dozen times and cleaning after shooting BH. Things change significantly when shooting 140grs volume of BH. You will NOT clean the barrel with 2 patches after shooting BH.

I've stated it more than once, the new RU rifle won't be for everyone, just like the UF isn't for everyone. There are more steps in shooting the rifle. However for those who want a long range manufactured production rifle, and are willing to accept the additional steps, they will end up with a great rifle. Its not smokeless and not designed for it. I know how much the guys shooting smokeless like it and that's ok. I love reading about it but, for those other shooters that don't want to go that route or laws won't allow, we shouldn't be bashed for something others don't understand.

TRUST ME........ the Ultimate Firearms rifle will ignite BH209. If you're ever in my area, you can shoot a couple rounds of it from mine.

 

[Nomosendero]

REGARDLESS........... AGAIN......... REGARDLESS......... what TB says about the ignition........... HE'S NOT (not, NOT, not,NOT) CORRECT.

I read that same article, not once but many times. TB has no clue (none, notta) about the ignition system of the Rem Ultimate or the Ultimate Firearms rifles. He admits he's shot one, what... once (UF) and he's making an assumption?!

Here's the flat out truth...... TB is wrong and I pointed it out to him in an email and fairly tactfully. However, talk about calling someone's baby ugly??? He wanted to respond not having a clue what he was talking about but, certainly bragging continuously about how great a shot he is and that "No one has shot as much BH as I have, other than at the manufacturer. PERIOD". Also the mention that he didn't think I'd ever used BH............

Through an exchange of emails, he did his best to tell me I was wrong, when I'm one that DOES have first hand experience, a lot of it. By the way, I saved all those emails and exchanges. I have no idea where he's coming from but, if he doesn't get a free rifle or equipment, he lets off nothing but negativity.

Now........ there was absolutely no convincing him he was wrong so, what did he do? He copied and sent all my emails to Randy at Ultimate Firearms. Funny as hell. Reason I know he did that, was that I received an email from Randy stating that he did and also a thank you from Randy for: "Good job straightening out Toby! Well done !"

The ignition system in the new Remington Ultimate, is the same system in the Ultimate Firearms rifles. Remington purchased the right to use the patent. The only difference that I'm aware of in the ignition, is that the UF uses a .45 Winchester Magnum brass and the RU will use, I think, a cut .308 case.

For a FACT............ an UF rifle will ignite BH209. With the identical breech plug ignition system, using a LMRP, why won't a RU? I've shot BH209 through my own Ultimate and believe me, it ignites with a LMRP. Now I'm not sure that one may want to shoot BH from the rifle and instead, shoot 3-T7M pellets. Now here's something you're going to tell me I'm crazy about.......... I'd rather clean the rifle after shooting 3-T7M pellets a dozen times, than I would shooting a dozen times and cleaning after shooting BH. Things change significantly when shooting 140grs volume of BH. You will NOT clean the barrel with 2 patches after shooting BH.

I've stated it more than once, the new RU rifle won't be for everyone, just like the UF isn't for everyone. There are more steps in shooting the rifle. However for those who want a long range manufactured production rifle, and are willing to accept the additional steps, they will end up with a great rifle. Its not smokeless and not designed for it. I know how much the guys shooting smokeless like it and that's ok. I love reading about it but, for those other shooters that don't want to go that route or laws won't allow, we shouldn't be bashed for something others don't understand.

TRUST ME........ the Ultimate Firearms rifle will ignite BH209. If you're ever in my area, you can shoot a couple rounds of it from mine.

I would like to take you up on the shoot, but driving North for a thousand miles and the lake has no fish, I don't know, ha!

Seriously though, thanks very much for your response. His site has in the past contained some decent tips, but there appears often times to be an agenda involved & I met him at the shot show in St. louis a couple of years ago & there seems to be a good deal of ego as well, but be that as it may. Another "expert" that has an agenda at least in my opinion, I won't say his name but initials are RW.

Thanks for the info. It is hard to accept that T7 would be easier to work with than BH because I have used them alot in the past, in both cases the application was in keeping with the original intent of the powders.
I understand that in the case of the Remington you are changing those conditions, therefore my past experience would not apply. TB also stated that the Rem/Ult. would not burn 4 pellets effectively. is that just him spouting off, could be he just wants to leave the impression that the Rem is not that much faster than some ML's that he promotes ?
Like I said, it's a lot of money to me & I will spend it if my comfort level is there that it will perform as expected.

 

[ENCORE]

I would like to take you up on the shoot, but driving North for a thousand miles and the lake has no fish, I don't know, ha!

Seriously though, thanks very much for your response. His site has in the past contained some decent tips, but there appears often times to be an agenda involved & I met him at the shot show in St. louis a couple of years ago & there seems to be a good deal of ego as well, but be that as it may. Another "expert" that has an agenda at least in my opinion, I won't say his name but initials are RW.

Thanks for the info. It is hard to accept that T7 would be easier to work with than BH because I have used them alot in the past, in both cases the application was in keeping with the original intent of the powders.
I understand that in the case of the Remington you are changing those conditions, therefore my past experience would not apply. TB also stated that the Rem/Ult. would not burn 4 pellets effectively. is that just him spouting off, could be he just wants to leave the impression that the Rem is not that much faster than some ML's that he promotes ?
Like I said, it's a lot of money to me & I will spend it if my comfort level is there that it will perform as expected.

Here's a quote from that article: When a No. 209 primer was fired into an unloaded rifle in the dark, fire from the primer would shoot four or more feet out the muzzle. Even so, neither of those rifles could fully consume four of the Tripe Seven Pellets. During one late evening test, I repeatedly loaded four pellet loads behind a
saboted 250-grain Hornady .452" diameter XTP bullet
...turned out all lights...and shot up into pitch black darkness of a small canyon. That fourth pellet always exited the muzzle burning...and would continue to burn for 20 to 30 yards before it was fully consumed.

Now in my email, he said he NEVER shot an unloaded rifle with just pellets alone. Read above bolded. Go figure..... Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, the difference in primers is that the LMRP is hotter, but has less pressure. That test he did is elementary and many have done that. Try it with black powder and just a #11 cap and its going to go bang. Inconsistency in accuracy using pellets and heavy or normal 209 primers has been known for years. Its why the manufacturers made lighter charged 209 primers, designated for shooting pellets. They knew that the pressure created by standard or magnum primers, moved the propellant and bullet prior to complete ignition.

What he's NOT using in his tests, is the ignition systems in the UF or RU rifles. He's comparing apples to turds. Pellets have a completely different combustion rate than loose propellant or BH. Had he used the UF or RU and shot those pellets with a bullet set on top, it would have burned all the propellant in the barrel and his nighttime tests would have shown him that. He's confused and has no first hand knowledge of the ignition system and because of that, has his reservations. He doesn't understand it, therefor has some negativity towards it.

Now think of this......... the UF and RU will have the same ignition system. It will also have the same Rem 700 action, along with the XMark Pro trigger. Identically the same except for the size of the case used to carry the LMRP, and of course it won't have the match barrel. So.... All things being about as equal as possible, if the rifle wouldn't ignite BH209 as he indicates, why does mine do this with BH209 at 400 yards?

 

[ENCORE]

Forgot to mention......... the entire ignition system of the UF and RU are designed for shooting pellets. Although they will shoot other propellants, it's actual design is for shooting pellets.

 

[Nomosendero]

And thanks again, I should have read it more closely, it does appear he feels a need to diminish the performance of the Remington for some reason. I suppose there is no financial incentive to promote the Rem.

BTW, one heck of a group with BH209 there, what velocity were you getting?

 

[ENCORE]

And thanks again, I should have read it more closely, it does appear he feels a need to diminish the performance of the Remington for some reason. I suppose there is no financial incentive to promote the Rem.

BTW, one heck of a group with BH209 there, what velocity were you getting?

Using the posted velocity of 3 T7M pellets, it would be right around 2350 to 2400. Bestill uses 100grs by weight and has shot through a chronograph at 2,400 I believe.

His reason is he works for someone else and he can't get a FREE rifle for himself. I know he won't get an UF rifle for free, that's pretty much a fact.

As for that group, I was definitely on my "A-game" that day. The weather conditions were absolutely perfect (a rarity) and I took a lot of time between shots. Which by the way, I swabbed one patch between shots. Its starting to get tough to shoot with the weather just getting hotter. I have a couple different sample packs of sabots I need to try out. Its a lot of fun taking pokes at 400 yards. gun)

 

[Nomosendero]

Pretty good writeup: Real Guns - Remington's Model 700SF Ultimate Muzzle Loader

 

[ENCORE]

And thanks again, I should have read it more closely, it does appear he feels a need to diminish the performance of the Remington for some reason. I suppose there is no financial incentive to promote the Rem.

BTW, one heck of a group with BH209 there, what velocity were you getting?

The Leupold has the CDS turret, which was designed to shoot a 300gr SST using 3-T7M pellets at 2,350fps. While experimenting, I matched the load to the turret. Without a chrono, I'd still estimate 2,350 +/-.

 

[ENCORE]

Pretty good writeup: Real Guns - Remington's Model 700SF Ultimate Muzzle Loader

Agreed! He did an excellent write up and never bashed another rifle. Quality writer.