87grn V-Max and Twist Rate Question

[wildcat]

Hey guys, I have a question. As many of you know, I am building a new 6mm Long Range Varmint rig. I am using a Krieger 1-8.5 twist barrel. I am going to mainly use the 105 and 107grn bullets for the shots over 600 yards, however, I would like to use the 87grn V-Max for shots out to 600 yards.

My question is, will the 1-8.5 twist shoot the 87grn V-Max well. Anyhow, any info would be great. I am planning on using the following powder, primer, brass, ect with the 87grn V-Max;

1. Lapua Brass
2. 52.5 grns H4350
3. Federal 210M primer
4. 87grn V-Max


Wildcat

 

[James Jones]

looks like a good combo you have their , and yes the 1-8 should shoot the 87gr V-max well , I've shot up to the 55gr Ballistic tips out of a 1-8 243 Ackley with great results in both accuracy and explosion on target

 

[wildcat]

Thanks for the info. I really like the 87grn V-Max for varmint hunting. I was getting some awesome velocity and accuracy, out of my last 6x284, using the 87grn V-max. I was getting 3730fps out of a 30" Krieger, it was explosive on varmints.

Wildcat

 

[Gary Morgan]

I have a 6x284 with a 26-inch 12 twist Shilen barrel. It produces 3600 FPS with 56 grs. of H4831SC and the 87 gr. V-Max. Three weeks ago I got a PD at 1,020 yards and four others between 800 and 825 yards. I think the heavier bullets will definitely be better on the really long shots because I hit several PDs at more than 1,000 yards that got in the hole. Mine has about 1,000 rounds through it and shoots amazingly well considering the way the throat looks now. I have purchased a new Hart 31-inch blank in 10 twist to replace it with. I think I can shoot the 105 V-Max with this new barrel. Only time will tell.

You're never beaten until you give up.

 

[wildcat]

1000yarder, if your going to shoot the 105grn A-Max, you're going to need a 1-9 twist for that bullet. However, the other 105grn bullets should work well out of the 1-10 twist.

I've heard the 87grn V-Max is an excellent bullet for long range varminting out to 1000 yards. It has a pretty good BC(.400) and it anchors the varmints much better than the VLD type bullets, however, it does not buck the wind as well as the VLD's. Anyhow, just trying to get some feed back from guys who are using this bullet in the 1-8 to 1-8.5 twist barrels.

The rifle should be completed buy January 2008, just in time for Varmint season which starts here in late February and goes to early May.

I've already received the Nesika Model L Action, Jewel trigger, Sunny Hill trigger guard, Vias Muzzle brake, Davidson Scope Base, and Kelby 30mm Rings. I am still waiting on the McMillan Tooley MBR stock and Krieger Barrel. I ordered the Stock and Barrel in March 2007, so I should be receiving them buy July, I HOPE!!

Wildcat

 

[buffalorancher]

Wildcat,
The 87 gr. V-Max will shoot OK in my 1-8.2 Rock barrel. I get 3675 fps with H 4350. Performance on PD's is very good but they won't shoot under 1/2 inch with this combo.
Lance

 

[Gary Morgan]

Wildcat, I'm not arguing with you because I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but I talked with a representative at Hornady yesterday, and he said that he has a 9 1/4 twist barrel with less motor than a 6x284 and he can stabilize 105 A-Maxes. He said he believes the 10 twist 6x284 will stabilize the 105 A-Maxes. As I said in my first reply, only time will tell for sure. He also said that the A-Max was a frangible bullet like the 87 gr. V-Max and should expand equally well at long distances. Personally, I couldn't stand to wait as long as you are talking about to get your gun. If you want the name of an excellent riflesmith with very quick turn-around, give me a PM. A hint is that he won the Super Shoot four times. Good luck.

 

[Gustavo]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I have a question. As many of you know, I am building a new 6mm Long Range Varmint rig. I am using a Krieger 1-8.5 twist barrel. I am going to mainly use the 105 and 107grn bullets for the shots over 600 yards, however, I would like to use the 87grn V-Max for shots out to 600 yards.

My question is, will the 1-8.5 twist shoot the 87grn V-Max well. Anyhow, any info would be great. I am planning on using the following powder, primer, brass, ect with the 87grn V-Max;

1. Lapua Brass
2. 52.5 grns H4350
3. Federal 210M primer
4. 87grn V-Max


Wildcat

[/ QUOTE ]

Using an estimate of an MV of 3500 fps here is what I came up. Please let me know if that value is OK for the 87gr V-Max.

 

[Gary Morgan]

105 A-Max and 10-twist barrel

Well, I got to the range yesterday with the new 10-twist Hart 6x284 Remington. I shot seven three-shot groups at 100 yards. Four of the groups measured between .390 and .450. The bullets were fully stabilized from the starter load up to 52 grains of 4831. Looks like a 10-twist barrel has no problem stabilizing 105 A-Maxes.

 

[wildcat]

Gary, what was your velocity like with the 105grn A-Max?

Wildcat

 

[Gary Morgan]

105 A-Max and 10-twist barrel

Wildcat, my velocities ran from 3100 to 3425. The bullet didn't group very well past 3,200 FPS. It took 55 grains of H4831SC to get to 3,425, and I had a slightly stiff bolt lift at this point.

I tried some 87 grain V-Maxes that I had loaded up for another barrel that I have. 56grains of 4831 chronos 3,575 in my 26-inch barrel, and the same load in the new 30-inch Hart shows 3675. I may be able to get to 3750 because I wasn't showing any pressure signs at 3675. This 87 gr. V-Max open up on PDs at 1,000 based on my experience.

 

[wildcat]

Gary, thanks for the info. I have decided to go with the 6BR instead of the 6x284.

Wildcat

 

[Gary Morgan]

6x284 vs. 6BR

Wildcat, if you are planning on shooting live varmints past 1,000 yards, I'd want to be sure that the bullet doesn't drop below 400 ft.lbs or energy. If it does, the ability to kill will be very questionable.

 

[wildcat]

Gary,
the 6BR can shoot 105grn bullets at 3000+fps, out of a 30" barrel. It will retain enough energy out to 1000 yards to kill Squirrels or Pdogs, if I were shooting at anything bigger, I would go with a different cartridge. I believe the 105grn Lapua Scenar, traveling 3000fps, with a BC of .530, has about 512 pounds of retained energy at 1000 yards.

I have learned much about the 6BR. The cartridge is perfect for small varmints (Squirrels and PDogs) out to 1000 yards. I was originally going with the 6x284. I have owned them in the past and have had excellent success with that cartridge. However, after reading and investigating the 6BR cartridge, I realized it would be perfect for my needs. Most of my varminting is done from 400 to 600 yards with occational shots out to 1000 yards. I decided the 6BR would be the better choice.

The 6BR will shoot a 70grn Nosler Ballistic Tip and the 75grn V-Max at around 3550 fps out of a 30" barrel while using a custom action that can handle higher presures, allowing for hotter loads. From what I have read and heard, the 6BR really shines when using these bullets, 70 to 75grn, at ranges from 400 to 600 yards. Many varmint hunters have informed me they have switched from cartridges like the 6x284, 6MM AI and 243AI to the smaller 6BR cartridge because of the accuracy they are able to attain with it. They also stated their hit ratio went way up at longer ranges when they switched to the 6BR. All of this info and info from 6mmBR.com made me realize the 6BR would be the better cartridge because of the ranges and type of varmints (Squirrels and PDogs) I will be shooting at.

During the intial stages of my project, many on this site tried to talk me into the 6BR., however, I was dead set on the Hotter 6x284. After months of investigating, reading and talking to the gunsmith, it became apparent the 6BR was the cartridge that would fit all of my needs. Here are the specs for my long range 6BR;

1. Standard 6BR Chamber for Lapua brass, .060 lead (Freebore).
2. Nesika Model L, 1.700 Diameter Action. (Big and Very nice)
3. Krieger 30", 1-8.5 twist, 4 groove, .236 lands, 1.450 Straight taper.
4. McMillan Tooley MBR stock, 5 Pounds weight added to rear to give the rifle a perfect balance, removable front stud for bi-pod use.
5. Jewel 2oz trigger.
6. Vias Muzzle brake.
7. Davidson 20MOA Base.
8. Kelby 30mm Rings
9. Nightforce NXS 12x42x56mm NP-2DD, MLR, or NP-R2 reticle, I am still trying to decide on which one to use.
10. Total weight of rifle 33 pounds.

As you can see the rifle is very heavy and will have a muzzle brake, so it's going to have no recoil. It should be really fun to shoot and very easy to see the blistering hits on varmints, aswell as the misses. This rifle is going to be stable, allowing for quick shot adjustment when I miss. I probably did not need a muzzle brake due to the weight of the rifle and cartridge, but I already had the brake and wanted the extra recoil reduction. This should be an awesome varmint rig.

The rifle should be completed in February or March of 2008, I will get pictures as soon as she is completed.

Wildcat