7RM or 7mm/300 win

[MudRunner2005]

Jeff, I never said I didn't like the 7mm/300 WM. I think it's a great caliber for someone who wants to handload, and wants to get a fast & efficient 7mm caliber, with a little more edge than the 7mm RemMag.

I was just stating that if he was wanting that big of a jump in velocity, like he was stataing he did, that the 7mm/300 didn't leave that much of a jump over the regular 7mm RemMag he already has in his current 24" or 26" barrel. Sure, in a 29-30" tube, it will beat a 26" 7mm STW in velocity...No denying that fact. But he was talking about rechambering his factory barrel he already has.

I have no doubt my barrel has wear signs, and that with another 250 rounds it will be worse. That's the nature of metal when it wears against another metallic surface. I'm sure the 7mm/300 gets better barrel life, but being they are so close in capacity and size, I can't see it getting that much better barrel life. Not doubting you, just going off of capacity numbers and velocities.

I think people take my posts wrong...I never mean my posts as insulting towards anything, except maybe the hype of the .26 Nosler, but as far as any of my other posts, they are not meant to be derrogatory, they are just simply my opinion. I think it's very hard to convey tone of voice, through text... But I try my best with punctuation. My appologies if anything I said was taken offensively, it was not intentional (I'm really starting to have to say that alot lately...).

I know facts trump opinions...No doubt.

 

[Dick Tinsley]

After being a big fan of the 7mm mag for many years(40 plus) I've owned many. I will probley own a 7 mag when the Good Load calls me. That being said, I've own 7stw's,7ultra's an just finished a 7/300 ( yes Jeff it's done an I've already sold it to a buddy that had to have it) this is just my 2cts, the 7mm rem mag is a great round, it will do most anything (not all) up to a certin point. The 7/300 is IMO the most efficient 7mm goin(but that's just my opinion) can't say anything negitive about the STW either, but I think( an I could be wrong) that the OP asked about the 7mag an the 7/300. My vote goes to, if the OP has a good shooting 7mag that he's comfortable with, then shoot it for now an have fun!!! Later in time when it's time for a rebarrel, my vote goes to the 7/300!! They Work! Sorry to get long winded, hope I didn't step on any toes, if I did, Sorry!!!

DT

 

[jett]

These posts hold truths. I have built 3 7mm / 300 wins and also have owned and set up many 7 Rems. There is nothing wrong with a 7 Rem but with 180's the 7/300 is easily 200 fps faster. We have seen 3200 fps @ 4100 ' ALS. with a 29 1/2" 7/300. We finalized that load at 3175 and drops were spot on to 1500 yards. The slowest one I built was a 26" and was still over 3100 fps and .3 moa at 300 yards with 3 consecutive groups. At this point the 7/300 has passed the round count where we saw the 7 STW start to show accuracy loss. The 7mm/300 is still a .5 moa rifle at 1000. The 7mm/300 win is well above a 7 RUM for barrel life too. A simple bushing change to the 300 win dies to have a great set of dies to neck down 300 win brass and you are set. I have field experience with many 7's and as soon as the 195 Bergers are released I will be testing another for myself with a 28" plus tube. Right now we just ordered a 8.5 twist tube for a short barrel (22") build in 7mm/300. That should be interesting. After owning many different 7's I feel the 7mm/300 win is a very good option if you actually shoot enough to care about barrel life. And if you want the most you can get in performance with a rifle that will still be shooting accurately after 1000 rounds.

Just my opinion after wringing the 7/300 out with real world field experience.

Jeff

Jeff,
What would you guess your 3175 fps velocity would decrease to in NC with high humidity at nearly sea level?
Thanks,
Jett

 

[MudRunner2005]

Jeff,
What would you guess your 3175 fps velocity would decrease to in NC with high humidity at nearly sea level?
Thanks,
Jett

About the same as it would here in Alabama @ 500ft above sea level. LOL

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I have played with the 7mm all my adult life. Quite frankly I wish the 7mm rem was based off the 300 necked down. Being the 7mm was first. That would be a little difficult for it to happen. As much as I prefer the 7mm rem over any thing It truly is a "hot rod" as Broz has referred to it in the past. If one was to do what I do to get the power out of it would improve upon any calibers performance. I Know with todays slower better powders the 7mm/300 is a great option. I just don't think one should go through the pain , you can just but the STW and have factory brass and readily available dies and load info.. One other thing I do not understand is how people are so negative on the 7mm ultra mag but yet still marvel over the "beast" 7mm that Kirby Allen touts. If the 7mm ultra is a useless over bore then what makes Kirbys so much better? I know that when the 195 gets released it will be a game changer as long as one follows the path of Broz and gets a 8 twist. I really would like others to chine in on the 7mm ultra vs the Allen Mag what they think they think their is so much difference.

 

[mrb1982]

I don't think any offense has been intended here. Mudrunner is just stating his desires on the topic and, like most of us, have fallen victim to not being able to convey tone of voice over messages.

Broz is just using his extensive knowledge on this caliber to offer an educated opinion.

I personally think there is some good stuff in this thread. Keep the debate going.

Seems that we all agree the 195's could make a big difference. An STW or 7/300 would both be a crazy awesome hunting rifle.

 

[Dick Tinsley]

I don't think any offense has been intended here. Mudrunner is just stating his desires on the topic and, like most of us, have fallen victim to not being able to convey tone of voice over messages.

Broz is just using his extensive knowledge on this caliber to offer an educated opinion.

I personally think there is some good stuff in this thread. Keep the debate going.

Seems that we all agree the 195's could make a big difference. An STW or 7/300 would both be a crazy awesome hunting rifle.

Couldn't have said it better!!! Good stuff!!!!

DT

 

[bigngreen]

The 7 mag does not warm my heart in any way, worked with them and they shot well just never really wanted one but the 7mm-300 to me seems to hit that sweet spot for the 7mm bore diameter. The only reason I would own a 7mag was to put a reamer into it!!!
Around here I have never seen STW loaded ammo and it was the last brass to get bought up so I think there may be two somewhere in this area, you'll find 7 mag and 7 RUM at every gas station though. The STW will blow a nut trying to run with even my shorty 7 RUM and a moderate load, I see no point in the STW unless you just think it's cool!!

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 7 mag does not warm my heart in any way, worked with them and they shot well just never really wanted one but the 7mm-300 to me seems to hit that sweet spot for the 7mm bore diameter. The only reason I would own a 7mag was to put a reamer into it!!!
Around here I have never seen STW loaded ammo and it was the last brass to get bought up so I think there may be two somewhere in this area, you'll find 7 mag and 7 RUM at every gas station though. The STW will blow a nut trying to run with even my shorty 7 RUM and a moderate load, I see no point in the STW unless you just think it's cool!!

Twice the barrel life compared to a 7RUM, and book velocities don't lie. The Berger manual lists max loads for both 7STW and 7RUM with the same powder and the same bullets...They're within 10-20 fps of each other...I wouldn't call that blowing a nut. I'm pushing 180's @ 3,000 fps, and I'm not get ANY pressure signs. A 180gr bullet moving that fast is pretty impressive, especially not to have any excess pressure. Primers aren't even getting flattened. It's just shooting REALLY good right now, so I don't see any need to try to get more velocity out of it.

I see absolutely no point in burning 19gr of powder to make up 20 fps...Not even justifiable for 150 fps, IMO. 200fps, maybe...But is 600 rounds of accurate barrel life really worth it?

 

[mrb1982]

From what I can see, STW brass availability is really dependent on where you are at. Around here, few and far between. A lot easier to find 300 win brass, so for me, I would probably lean that way. Other places, might be a little different. Who knows. Otherwise, a horse a piece.

 

[MudRunner2005]

From what I can see, STW brass availability is really dependent on where you are at. Around here, few and far between. A lot easier to find 300 win brass, so for me, I would probably lean that way. Other places, might be a little different. Who knows. Otherwise, a horse a piece.

I order my brass online and save money. Local store wants rediculous prices for Nosler brass, and their Nosler brass selection has been very slim the last year or so... But they did recently get a big shipment in, that had alot of STW brass. I was surprised.

 

[IdahoCTD]

This whole argument is why I rechamber a 7RM barrel to 7-300wm for my dad. He had a 24" barrel I rechambered to 7STW and the velocities he gets from it are way slower than either of my longer barreled 7-300's (27-28"). I told him he'd probably do just as well with a 7-300wm in a 24" barrel plus he can load to the rifling in a standard mag box with 162/168gr bullets. We will shoot my same load, 73gr H-1000 with a 162 Amax in RWS brass, to compare the velocity and accuracy. I would bet he is still in the 3100fps range that he was getting from the 7STW.

The bottom line is there is very little practical advantage to a 7STW or 7RUM loaded to standard mag length. If you want to add a Wyatt 4" mag box so the bullets can be seated where they need to be then both will start to run away from a 7-300wm.

Mud,

A 7STW at 3000fps with 180's is pretty pathetic really. A warm 7RM will do that and a 7-300wm will do well over 3100fps. As long as it shoots good leave it but I'd have a hard time being on the STW band wagon quoting velocities that low no matter what the pressure is like. There is a reason people shoot magnums and that is for speed. If I had to run a STW that slow to get a accurate load I'd sell it and build something else personally. To me that is like having a 8 second race car and running it in a 12 second class because it runs better there.

 

[MudRunner2005]

This whole argument is why I rechamber a 7RM barrel to 7-300wm for my dad. He had a 24" barrel I rechambered to 7STW and the velocities he gets from it are way slower than either of my longer barreled 7-300's (27-28"). I told him he'd probably do just as well with a 7-300wm in a 24" barrel plus he can load to the rifling in a standard mag box with 162/168gr bullets. We will shoot my same load, 73gr H-1000 with a 162 Amax in RWS brass, to compare the velocity and accuracy. I would bet he is still in the 3100fps range that he was getting from the 7STW.

The bottom line is there is very little practical advantage to a 7STW or 7RUM loaded to standard mag length. If you want to add a Wyatt 4" mag box so the bullets can be seated where they need to be then both will start to run away from a 7-300wm.

Mud,

A 7STW at 3000fps with 180's is pretty pathetic really. A warm 7RM will do that and a 7-300wm will do well over 3100fps. As long as it shoots good leave it but I'd have a hard time being on the STW band wagon quoting velocities that low no matter what the pressure is like. There is a reason people shoot magnums and that is for speed. If I had to run a STW that slow to get a accurate load I'd sell it and build something else personally. To me that is like having a 8 second race car and running it in a 12 second class because it runs better there.

Just because you had a crappy experience with a 24" barreled STW (which was a waste of a chamber job, btw), doesn't mean the caliber is junk. I wouldn't own anything shorter than a 26" barrel for even a 7mm RemMag...Especially a 7/300 or 7mm STW, because you'll never get a complete burn with a 24" barrel and that much powder.

I haven't had a chance to run my loads any hotter than 3,000 fps. They are shooting great where they're at, and I am loading them right up on the lands, maybe a couple thousandths off. I will try to get the velocities higher, but you also have to remember how close to sea-level we are here. Up higher where you are, the air is thinner, which adds velocity. Down here the air is thick and the barometric pressures are usually between 29-33 in, and our humidity is always around 50-80%. So speeds down here are gonna be vastly slower than up in the hills and mountains.

However, I will push on the threshold a little bit more and keep going till I get pressure signs and see it still follows the node and if the groups tighten up even more.

 

[IdahoCTD]

Just because you had a crappy experience with a 24" barreled STW (which was a waste of a chamber job, btw), doesn't mean the caliber is junk. I wouldn't own anything shorter than a 26" barrel for even a 7mm RemMag...Especially a 7/300 or 7mm STW, because you'll never get a complete burn with a 24" barrel and that much powder.

I haven't had a chance to run my loads any hotter than 3,000 fps. They are shooting great where they're at, and I am loading them right up on the lands, maybe a couple thousandths off. I will try to get the velocities higher, but you also have to remember how close to sea-level we are here. Up higher where you are, the air is thinner, which adds velocity. Down here the air is thick and the barometric pressures are usually between 29-33 in, and our humidity is always around 50-80%. So speeds down here are gonna be vastly slower than up in the hills and mountains.

However, I will push on the threshold a little bit more and keep going till I get pressure signs and see it still follows the node and if the groups tighten up even more.

I didn't say the caliber was junk. I have 2 7STW's myself and numerous other 8mm mag/375 H&H based calibers from 7STW to 458 Lott. I've probably built more 7STW's then you would ever own and have been playing with the caliber for nearly 20 years. It's a good caliber "IF" you give it the magazine space it needs to be a good caliber. Rechambering a 24" 7RM barrel to STW was my dad's idea not mine. Since it doesn't cost him a thing, and I don't mind doing it for him, I did it. It shoots pretty good but is just slow. If this barrel doesn't do well for my dad he will finally do what I've told him to do for years and that is to buy a custom barrel. He get's free gunsmithing so it's pretty hard to beat that deal.

You get entirely too defensive about calibers that you have guns for. Just because you like them doesn't mean there isn't a better mouse trap or someone with a varying opinion. Play with a few more calibers to form a more well rounded opinion of things and you will understand what I'm talking about. BTW my first custom rifle was a 7-300wm on a Mark X mauser action with a 24" Douglas barrel that I had built when I was about 20 years old. Between then and now I learned to build my own guns and have chambered over 150 custom barrels for myself plus numerous others for friends and family, many of which were 7 STW's. I've built just about any magnum caliber available along with a few non-magnums. In custom barrels I've had about 8 STW's and have rechambered another dozen or so factory barrels yet the last 2 7mm's I built were 7-300wm because they give up very little, if anything, to a 7STW and function through a factory mag box with room to spare. Both shoot under 3/8" and one shot a .211" group with the 2nd through the 4th rounds down the barrel and a .318" group the 5th through 7th rounds using a different seating depth. A few days later it went 11 for 12 on pigeons and rock chucks with some pretty spectacular kills.

The same goes for your .300 Ackley......I've had .30-8mm's (300 Super), .308 Baer's, and .30-358 STA's (300 Jarrett) based on the 2.85" magnum case. The latter two are almost identical to your 300 Ackley but with 35 degree shoulders instead of 40 degree. The one I shoot the most is the 30-8mm because I don't have to fireform brass. Neck down 8mm mag and away you go. The chamber is perfect so I don't have to neck size at all (shoot it, knock the primers out, put new ones in, load it with powder and seat a new bullet. no sizing) and if I have to FL size I use a 8mm mag FL die with the expander removed. Much easier and cheaper than custom dies. The only nice thing about the 35 and 40 degree shoulders is you don't hardly have to trim your brass and the cases are less likely to separate ahead of the belt with multiple firings. I just had a case separate and stick in the chamber of my 30-8mm I took chuck hunting last week. It did log a most spectacular kill with a 150 Nosler BT doing 3550fps before that though. Parts were hanging in the sage brush behind where he was laying.

I'm only at 2700' elevation so your speeds and mine won't be that much different. Generally I hunt at 6000' plus though.