7RM and 168VLD

[tomcat818]

Are you suggesting that the OP is just picking different POA for his shots within the same group? Sorry I'm not trying to be facetious but aren't you pointing put some obvious goals of load development? The whole point of it is to find a powder charge and depth that shows a consistent group? I believe that's the aim of his post is that he's searching for where his barrel is happy. It's obviously not.

No not intentionally no one would but I was addressing the OP trying to understand his process for consistent POA before going down a rabbit hole potentially chasing a self induced problem. I have never seen a rifle that will shoot a .5" grp using factory ammo that shoots that inconsistent with everything else especially hand loads.

 

[overinfinite]

No not intentionally no one would but I was addressing the OP trying to understand his process for consistent POA before going down a rabbit hole potentially chasing a self induced problem. I have never seen a rifle that will shoot a .5" grp using factory ammo that shoots that inconsistent with everything else especially hand loads.

I think I understand what you're saying. My poi changes throughout the process because I did a scope change with a known good scope, and removed the suppressor for a 30 cal brake. One group was high, adjust to keep it relatively on paper. It's in my notes.
You're saying if 68.5 gr is grouping center 3in high and left and 68gr is grouping center 3in low and right, there is a big problem. There has little to no significant change in poi from changes in powder, loads, seating depth or shoulder bump. All groups have been inside a 2.5" circle from relative poa. Hope that makes sense.
The .5" group also shot two groups at .98 and .97 I believe. My guess is this scratch was hiding under the copper fouling. It's starting to explain the extreme fouling that happens relatively fast, 30 rounds and this has copper streaks at the crown.
The gun is getting put in the safe until after the sheep hunt. I am investing in a good bore scope to check the throat and see how the chamber is and see if there is any firecracking that I can't see. I'll either chop barrel, recrown and thread or I'll rebarrel with a 1:8 twist either way I don't think I am wasting any more time on it as it is.

 

[Brathany]

Something that "caught my eye" is your reticle focus ring. (Yellow arrow)

I've not seen anyone have a clear reticle with the ring that close to the scope body. Typically there's a gap. That gap gets bigger as eyes get older too!
I'm not trying to belittle you, as maybe you already know this, but in the last two months I've pointed this out on two occasions and both shooters faces lit up like a lightbulb after I adjusted it. Their groups got lots better!

 

[overinfinite]

No belittling taken. I have tried that adjustment on almost every rifle. From my understanding you point the scope at the grass or something at 80ish yards and make adjustment till it is spot on. Then parallax is adjusted to bring image into focus.
Maybe it's the fact that I am 30. Or the fact that I am blinder than a bat and use contacts. I've never had a better reticle until that ring is all the way closed

 

[Buttermilk]

To adjust reticle focus, look at the blue sky, or a blank wall, and turn the focus ring until the reticle is nice and sharp. Look away, then back at the reticle. It should be nice and sharp. Don't give the eye time to "focus" the reticle. It should be immediately sharp and clear.

Then, the parallax is set for whatever distance you're shooting.

 

[Brathany]

No belittling taken. I have tried that adjustment on almost every rifle. From my understanding you point the scope at the grass or something at 80ish yards and make adjustment till it is spot on. Then parallax is adjusted to bring image into focus.
Maybe it's the fact that I am 30. Or the fact that I am blinder than a bat and use contacts. I've never had a better reticle until that ring is all the way closed

As long as you are not looking while you're turning the dial, or your eye dials to make settings work. I've tried everything short range to include a white wall, some bright backdrop, but the best is against the sky. Glance at the reticle, look away and do a half turn. Glance back and keep going till the reticle is very distinct. Then run your parallax as you have.

 

[overinfinite]

I may have not been clear on that. I look grass or something, with the parallax way off. I adjust the ring for the reticle clarity until it's clear. If anything it may be clearer at 1/4 turn off bottoming out. Iam extremely near sighted naturally. But! I'll double check again.
Either way this exact scope just came off a 22-250 with 55gr vmax and h380 that produced 5 groups of 0.6 to 0.7" and before that it was on my wife's 6.5cm that shoots 135gr classics with imr4350 that produced 0.5" groups consistently... using my system I've been very confident in my optics and reloading, this rifle just threw a rather large wrench in a fan.

 

[Brathany]

I may have not been clear on that. I look grass or something, with the parallax way off. I adjust the ring for the reticle clarity until it's clear. If anything it may be clearer at 1/4 turn off bottoming out. Iam extremely near sighted naturally. But! I'll double check again.
Either way this exact scope just came off a 22-250 with 55gr vmax and h380 that produced 5 groups of 0.6 to 0.7" and before that it was on my wife's 6.5cm that shoots 135gr classics with imr4350 that produced 0.5" groups consistently... using my system I've been very confident in my optics and reloading, this rifle just threw a rather large wrench in a fan.

I had thought that since posting, that you have other guns that are grouping. So you have a baseline. Oh well, I always think if something I post isn't of value to the OP, it's possibly beneficial to other readers if the shoe fits.

How does shooting with RX glasses vs without work out? I've had perfect vision up till a couple years ago, now I need 1.5X readers for anything arms reach and closer. If I magnify anything just a bit, I'm golden. Especially all mag ranges of a scope. I'm sure this is just getting old symptom, but you have a different circumstance it sounds.

 

[overinfinite]

I definitely appreciate the offers and input. That's why I am here, to listen. I do not mean to be argumentive or dismissive. Even the most experienced can forget or dismiss a possible solution

 

[tomcat818]

A better view of the bore\breach would help determine what if anything is there. I'm currently using the Lyman Borecam 2.0 and it provides HD resolution video via a phone app. I tried to post a video of a 50 yr old barrel showing some fairly significant corrosion but Verizon recently forced their users over to Google messaging and it would only allow fifteen secs of it then compressed it in a format that most viewers can't open. Anyway rant over. The reason I bring up this barrel is it shoots lights out for a factory rifle .454" @102 and 2.05" @ 302yds so one small defect in your bore is probably not going to affect accuracy a whole lot.

You get my point on consistency and I'm glad you mentioned the rifle setup as well because the thought had crossed my mind considering you were running a can which can shift the POI.

I included the 6 charge OCW target to illustrate that's what I look for to determine if bullet\powder & barrel are happy is both POI and grouping across multiple charge weights and consistent POA and trigger break is the only way to be sure you are getting good shot data. I use poster board stock to make my targets so I get nice clean bullet holes which is better for getting more precise measurements. I spend a lot of money on everything leading up to and load development so it doesn't make sense to go cheap on targets when analysing load data. If I had my own range maybe something like Shotmarker would make sense but for public range I like my system.

Good luck with your project

 

[overinfinite]

I officially hit 500 rounds through this rifle Sunday evening.
Somewhat started from scratch on Friday and did a deep scrub on the rifle, the brass and the bolt. bumped the shoulder, trimmed & deburred the brass and picked up some 162 ELDM's.
I have historically had great success with ELDMs on 4 different 6.5s, 1 30 cal and 1 other 7mm.. I also dug out my 22-250 range toy and did a tried and true load of some 55gr VMAX's and H380.
Started the morning off with 3 groups on the 250 that printed 0.464, 0.410 & 0.498... 15 rounds, all under 0.8" if overlaid. unfortunately I tore my paper trying to get it off my backing. But I felt on top of the mountain! A reminder to myself that I do know what I am doing...
Moved on to H4831SC and the 162gr from 62.3 to 65gr in 0.3 increments, 0.010" off touching the lands.
I also wanted to see validity of a 3 shot vs 5 shot group. I shot 3 shots for every load, wrote everything down in black marker, then returned to the firing order with a follow up 2 shots and recorded it with blue pen. disregard #6.... I measured wrong the first time, but the follow up 2 shots printed inside the the first 3.
Although #10(65gr) was the best group, I liked #3 (62.9gr) because every group around it was extremely similar in location and size- hinting towards a node.
I moved on to loading up 20 rounds of 162ELDM W/ 62.9gr H4831SC & did a seating depth test of 0.010", 0.040", 0.070", 0.100".
I did not take a picture, but it grouped as such
0.010" = 1.10"
0.040" = 1.16"
0.070" = 1.30"
0.100" = 1.14"
Although the groups got bigger as I went further out, 0.010" is a duplicate of the charge weight test that produced 0.736" just 2 hours before.
Not to be judged by singular groups, I went home and loaded up two different groups,
62.9gr & 65gr, loaded 0.010" off the lands
62.9gr = 0.98", 1.13", 1.04"
65gr = 1.15", 1.07" 0.94"
This time, the 65gr grouped the 15 rounds within 1.35" and the 62.9gr grouped the 15 rounds within 1.54"
Is this enough to kill a sheep at 500-600 yards, yeahhhh maybe. But it is not consistently producing under 1.00" - that was my criteria. originally it was under 0.75"
Not really sure where to go from here. In total this gun has handloaded for 2 different bullets, 2 different powders. and has shot 4 different bullets and it has been CONSISTENTLY 1.0-1.5" groups. every once in a while it makes me hope, until it refuses to duplicate a good group.

 

[Plinker147]

Sounds like you have done adequate testing and you just have a 1MOA barrel. That Happens.

Only thing I would do is shoot your best load at 600yd and see what it produces

 

[cajun]

Try a seating depth test. The eld's I've shot usually wind up 40-60 off.

 

[overinfinite]

Try a seating depth test. The eld's I've shot usually wind up 40-60 off.

umm.. read it again? not to be a smart @ss. but, I did with bergers and ELDM's..