7MM wildcats?

[cornstalker]

Understood.
Sometimes though when you try to find a cheaper way, it ends up being almost as expensive, and more effort on your part.
I sure don't like the Brass price for the 7 Dak, but it is Norma brass, and it works well, and I don't have to foot a bill or partial bill for a new reamer if my smith doesn't have it.
As time goes on the more I am required to play with wildcats the less I enjoy it-Didn't use to be that way though

Well, that is sage advice. The 7mm Dakota doesn't look so bad all of the sudden. The only option (so far) that might be less money is the 7mm/300 Win, and I am concerned that if I wanted to shoot Bergers (168 or 180) they wont fit in the mag box.

I am thinking about doing a rebarrel on my .338 Win Mag and don't have a ton of cash to play with (it has been a rough couple of years). I want a 7mm cartridge due to the bullet selection, and wanted to try to get a little quicker than a 7mm Rem Mag. My mag box will only allow for about 3.350" COL.


How can I get my hands on some 7mm Dakota load data to peruse?

I do like the idea of the 7mm-375 Ruger, but I think I will wait for someone else to pioneer that one.....

 

[Broz]

The only option (so far) that might be less money is the 7mm/300 Win, and I am concerned that if I wanted to shoot Bergers (168 or 180) they wont fit in the mag box.

Not a huge problem either way. I will have more info in a few days but so far I am doing well in a factory 700 magnum box with 180 Bergers in my 7mm-300 win. If I decide I need to go longer I will simply install the Wyatts extended mag box that costs $26. and grind a bit off the bolt stop although I don't think the bolt stop will need it. The Wyatts box is .110" longer I believe.

Jeff

 

[cornstalker]

Not a huge problem either way. I will have more info in a few days but so far I am doing well in a factory 700 magnum box with 180 Bergers in my 7mm-300 win. If I decide I need to go longer I will simply install the Wyatts extended mag box that costs $26. and grind a bit off the bolt stop although I don't think the bolt stop will need it. The Wyatts box is .110" longer I believe.

Jeff

I will measure my mag box again when I get home tonight just to double check, but I am working off of a lowly Ruger M77 MKII action. I am not aware of any options for the mag box on that one, and I am pretty sure it is shorter than your Remmy.

I'll have to do a little more homework.

Maybe I would be better off leaving this one alone and wait 'til I have the cash for a better action........

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Looking on Midway, all I see is the standard of Redding dies for for $155 and a type S bushing neck die in the 7mm Dakota for $135. They do make a type S FL die and a body die, but not a competiton seater and the body or FL sizer would have to be ordered from Redding and they charge more than Midway.

I personaly am a bushing and competiton bullet seater fan, so if I was going with either the Dakota or the 375 Ruger, I would be getting custom dies made. One of our members mentioned a guy who works for Hornady who will make a set custom dies for a couple of hundred dollars. So for me, dies for either the Dakota or the 375 Ruger would cost the same. The brass for the 375 Ruger costs $.82 ea and the Dakota $1.63 ea in 100 case lots. 200 peices of brass would be about $160 in difference and Hornady is probably as good or maybe better (?) than Norma as far as durability.

Then there's the reamer. A smith is more likely to have the Dakota and new reamer would cost a couple of hundred or more... but it could probably be easily sold right here in this forum or even rented and you would have the reamer for another barrel if and when needed. I'm not a smithing expert but I was under the impression that a chamber reamer can be used separate from the troat reamer. If so, I dont imagine it would be too hard too come up with a 375 Chamber reamer and a 7mm throat reamer separately.

Another thing about the 375 Ruger is that it will the standard magnum bolt face whereas a Dakota will probably require the face to be opened up a little. No biggy but something to consider and once the bolt face is opened up it probably wont be useful on another standard magnum cartridge.

Just thought I would make your life a little more complicated

 

[MontanaRifleman]

For what it is worth, I am getting 3275 with a 150 nos E-tip in a 24" 7 Rem mag. Moly and RL-17 made the difference.

Wow! That's smokin! I am just about to try some 160 AB's with RL17 in my 7RM.

I have to wonder what a 160 could do with a 26" barrel and either RL-17 or the soon to hit the market Power Pro 4000 MR and moly. Might do what you want with little cost or effort.

FYI the Power Pro 4000 MR is made by the same company that made RL-17, Nitrochemie. It is going to have similar characteristics with a long burning curve. Graf and Sons has it on back order. According to Alliant's representative Ben Amonette it will be out there soon:

"We hope the first of the Power Pro series, 300MP (magnum pistol) and 4000MR (magnum rifle) will be released this spring. Later in the year we hope to have "Varmint", 2000MR (medium rifle), 3000LR (large rifle) ready to go. More information will be available closer to release time.Thanks for your note."

I will be trying 4000 in the 24" 7 mag and 30" 7 rem mag as soon as it is in my hands. I'll report my findings here.

Now that there is very interesting news. I heard the rumor of this powder last year. That would be awesome if it could boost the big mag velocities like RL17 boosts the smaller cases in the WSM's, .06's and .08's.

Lets see.... 3600 fps for a 180 E-Tip out of a 300 RUM gun)

 

[AZShooter]

Regarding reamers... after having a few rifles made by my gunsmith with HIS reamers with specs that didn't thrill me, all new rifles have custom reamers made to MY specs. The cost for the ones that Pacific Tool and Gauge made were right around $140 or so. It is worth it.

The Ruger mag box can be lengthened but a gunsmith will have to do it. I have had three of my old tang safety M77s lengthened. Two are short actions and one a long action. IMO the LA Ruger is still too short, even with a lengthened mag box, to work with a 7/300 win mag and those long VLDs.

 

[nzspearo]

Greg Duley (NZ) has made a number of 7mm wildcats including one called 7mm Fatso based on a shortened 338 Lapua - he has an article on LRH about hunting Wapiti in Fiordland (New Zealand) with that rifle. Here is a bit of the text from the article:

....7mm Fatso. This cartridge is based on a 338 Lapua magnum necked down to 7mm and shortened to the same body length as a Winchester Short Magnum. This creates the ultimate Short Magnum giving 7mm STW ballistics out of a lightweight short actioned rifle weighing just over 7 pounds all up including scope. The action on this particular rifle is a trued Remington Titanium with the bolt face opened up, Sako extractor fitted and magazine lengthened. More weight is saved with a Gre-Tan speed lock alloy firing pin and alloy bolt shroud and Rifle Basix alloy housing three lever trigger. The barrel is a 26 inch number 4 contour fluted Lilja with a 1 in 9 twist. The stock is a McMillan Hunters Edge. The Leupold 4.5-14x50 LR Mark 4 sits in those exquisite Nightforce low alloy rings with the titanium clamps on a one-piece alloy base. This picture was taken before I had mounted the lighter scope. The load for the long shots is a 162gn A-Max doing 3250 fps, and the BC works out at .650 out of this rifle. You can push this bullet at 3300 fps but the groups open up to over .5 MOA whereas at this velocity they'll shoot .4 MOA which is pretty good for such a light rifle. For the under 500 yards shots a 160gn Accubond (BC .525) at 3300 fps works superbly, and averages .5 to .6 MOA....

 

[cornstalker]

Greg Duley (NZ) has made a number of 7mm wildcats including one called 7mm Fatso based on a shortened 338 Lapua - he has an article on LRH about hunting Wapiti in Fiordland (New Zealand) with that rifle. Here is a bit of the text from the article:

....7mm Fatso. This cartridge is based on a 338 Lapua magnum necked down to 7mm and shortened to the same body length as a Winchester Short Magnum. This creates the ultimate Short Magnum giving 7mm STW ballistics out of a lightweight short actioned rifle weighing just over 7 pounds all up including scope. The action on this particular rifle is a trued Remington Titanium with the bolt face opened up, Sako extractor fitted and magazine lengthened. More weight is saved with a Gre-Tan speed lock alloy firing pin and alloy bolt shroud and Rifle Basix alloy housing three lever trigger. The barrel is a 26 inch number 4 contour fluted Lilja with a 1 in 9 twist. The stock is a McMillan Hunters Edge. The Leupold 4.5-14x50 LR Mark 4 sits in those exquisite Nightforce low alloy rings with the titanium clamps on a one-piece alloy base. This picture was taken before I had mounted the lighter scope. The load for the long shots is a 162gn A-Max doing 3250 fps, and the BC works out at .650 out of this rifle. You can push this bullet at 3300 fps but the groups open up to over .5 MOA whereas at this velocity they'll shoot .4 MOA which is pretty good for such a light rifle. For the under 500 yards shots a 160gn Accubond (BC .525) at 3300 fps works superbly, and averages .5 to .6 MOA....

I read that article. It sounds perfect, yet the part about making the brass sounds a bit intimidating.

 

[cornstalker]

Does anyone know why Kirby skipped the 7mm with AX series?

Seems like a 7mm-.300 Dakota "Improved" may have merit......

 

[7mmRHB]

There is a 7mm wildcat that I designed called the 284 STAK that is based on the 300 or 330 Dakota case. It is an IMP 40* with reduced body taper. 3200 plus with 180 Bergers. Works very well but still involves a fair amount of work and $ to do.

My own 7mm wildcat is called the 7mm RHB and is a shortened RUM case ( 2.555 ) that I designed in 1999 when the RUM brass first became available . It has a 35* shoulder and less taper in the body also. It holds about 3 gr more powder than the 284 STAC and the performance level is about the same. This version is very difficult and expensive to pull off !!!This one is not for the faint of heart!! (or thin wallet) There are pictures and a bit of write up on LRH, probably on one of Goodgroupers threads so you could do a search .

The 7mm Dakota is perfect for what you stated you are looking for!! Listen to Ernie, he knows what he's talking about!! --- RHB

 

[cornstalker]

Thanks. I am now convinced that the 7mm Dakota is the way to go. The last stone for me to turn was to try to duplicate it's performance while keeping the .532 bolt face. Mainly trying to plan for an out if the 7mm Dakota doesn't meet my expectations. I guess I am now prepared to take that risk.


Just also wanted to thank everyone for their input. I am frequently amazed at the gun IQ on this site. I have not found this level of knowledge at any other site.

 

[elkaholic]

Is anyone aware of any 7mm wildcat cartridge that will push a 160 to 3200 fps with a 2.50" case? (other than the 7mm Dakota)

I would like to keep the barrel at 26" max.

I can come REAL close to that with my case. I shoot 140's in my 6.5 at 3150 and can reach 3200+ (but a little hot) This with a 26" barrel. I'm SURE you could do it with a 28" barrel in a .280 with 160 grainers. In fact, I'm thinking of doing just that when I get my 300 Sherman done,........Rich
P.S. This is an '06 sized case by the way, not a magnum!

 

[winmagman]

I may have missed the suggestion somewhere along the line, but what about necking down the 338 Norma Mag?

Chris

 

[cornstalker]

I can come REAL close to that with my case. I shoot 140's in my 6.5 at 3150 and can reach 3200+ (but a little hot) This with a 26" barrel. I'm SURE you could do it with a 28" barrel in a .280 with 160 grainers. In fact, I'm thinking of doing just that when I get my 300 Sherman done,........Rich
P.S. This is an '06 sized case by the way, not a magnum!

It would already be a 6.5-06 AI if it had a .473 bolt face....