7mm vs 300 wm.

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Pyroducks and 486, The 7mm rem mag is an excellent cartridge, don't get me wrong. It has great popularity because it has been chambered by every rifle manufacturer for many years. It is capable of taking about any animal in north america. I understand what you are both saying. With proper bullet placement and shot angle it is a good killer even on elk size game. However I think it is best suited to deer/ antelope size animals based on all the elk size game I have seen lost to hits with the 7mm rem mag through the years. Larger calibers just do big animals better. I have taken elk at over 1000 yards with the 7mm-300 wby back in the 70's. Ballistically I really thought I had something. After a long discussion with Elmer Keith he talked me into the 340 wby for long range elk. I immediately noticed a tremendous difference in the effect of that 250 gameking hitting an elk at 1000 yards vs the 175 gameking in 7mm. When I am serious after big bulls I always carry a big gun now. Big elk are just to hard to find to limit yourself with a small caliber. As you go up in weight and caliber you have much better odds of driving a bullet through a big bull elk from any shot angle at any range. The larger 300 winchester bullet is a little better at this than the 7mm rem mag. The 338 is better still and the 375 better than the 338 and the 16" guns on the Iowa class battleships will do the job at over 20 miles. I hear there isn't much meat left though.

So it gets back to what you guys said. The biggest gun you can effectively shoot is the best. If that is the 7mm rem mag then it is best for you. Ballistically there is not going to be a lot of difference between these two. The difference is the larger heavier bullet gives you a better chance with poor shot angles to drive it through and kill the game effectively..

 

[pyroducksx3]

Pyroducks and 486, The 7mm rem mag is an excellent cartridge, don't get me wrong. It has great popularity because it has been chambered by every rifle manufacturer for many years. It is capable of taking about any animal in north america. I understand what you are both saying. With proper bullet placement and shot angle it is a good killer even on elk size game. However I think it is best suited to deer/ antelope size animals based on all the elk size game I have seen lost to hits with the 7mm rem mag through the years. Larger calibers just do big animals better. I have taken elk at over 1000 yards with the 7mm-300 wby back in the 70's. Ballistically I really thought I had something. After a long discussion with Elmer Keith he talked me into the 340 wby for long range elk. I immediately noticed a tremendous difference in the effect of that 250 gameking hitting an elk at 1000 yards vs the 175 gameking in 7mm. When I am serious after big bulls I always carry a big gun now. Big elk are just to hard to find to limit yourself with a small caliber. As you go up in weight and caliber you have much better odds of driving a bullet through a big bull elk from any shot angle at any range. The larger 300 winchester bullet is a little better at this than the 7mm rem mag. The 338 is better still and the 375 better than the 338 and the 16" guns on the Iowa class battleships will do the job at over 20 miles. I hear there isn't much meat left though.

So it gets back to what you guys said. The biggest gun you can effectively shoot is the best. If that is the 7mm rem mag then it is best for you. Ballistically there is not going to be a lot of difference between these two. The difference is the larger heavier bullet gives you a better chance with poor shot angles to drive it through and kill the game effectively..

Well Long Time Long Ranger I actually agreed with everything you said. Right down to the 7mm best for deer sized game. I would hunt elk out to about 600 yards with a 7 rem mag, after that I even stated Im going right up to a 338 RUM or the like. I choose a 7 mostly for the enoyability of shooting and I mostly hunt deer and not much elk with the rifle. Had the case been I hunted elk often during modern firearm season (Im in washington and we have to choose modern or bow, I usually bow hunt) then maybe it would cause me to reconsider caliber choice. I have a tikka in 300 wsm and to be honest I shoot it well but using the 180 in a such a light gun it just isnt much fun to shoot. Everything you have said is accurate and true no dissagreements here. It just that the 7 fits my needs well. So hopefully someday soon I'll get that big 338 and be all set

 

[GuNsLiNgEr78]

7 remington mags are great but no match for a 300 win mag you guys should try to learn about balistic before running down a 7 mag or a 300 win mag for that matter . maybe learn about how shot placement works on killing animals . you see a 7 mag has enough energy to kill an elk at 1500 yards with an actual kill shot . well lets just say dont you think an elk would die if you took a 40 cal s&w pistola and shot point blank at the heart . well a 7mag has more energy than that at 1500 yards and then some and then some more with the 300 win mag at the same range . thats right but you got to have high bullet b.c. to get there you cant do it with a round nose bullet and say the 7mag is better just because you got one and you tried one bullet in your balistic program and used a 130 in the 300 and a high b.c. profile in the 7mag and you came up with better numbers with the 7mag and you got one and its mo better . ok now lets use some real figures take a 180gn berger match hybred that you really cant shoot in most standard 7mag barrels but lets just pretend now for the 7 mag fans come on ok run that at 2850 fps in that big bad 7mag and then take the 300 win mag 215 gn berger match hybred at 2850 fps . oh oh whats that the 7mag just got its butt handed to it anyway you look at it . 300 win mag has more energy and less drop . at ANY range you just keep scratching your heads guys , and yes ladys the 300 win mag does kick more cause its starting to get in the real maginum class just grow a pair why don't ya . but if you cant get the job done with the 7mag throw in the towel .
they use ak-47's to kill elephants ..
gun)gun)gun)gun)gun)gun)

 

[silvertip-co]

As far as accuracy and comfort shooting and small groups and any other spec you can think of I take my current 300 win mag over ALL of the five 7mm rem mags of various makes and models I have had over thirty years. 300 win mag just plain rocks. Just ask the Army.

 

[Enzo]

I am shocked at the amount of men here who have not learned anything from women. BIGGER IS BETTER

 

[liltank]

I am shocked at the amount of men here who have not learned anything from women. BIGGER IS BETTER

+1

 

[jakes10mm]

Man'…, I've got to tell you, this looks like a horse race… two very fine cartridges. I'd think both cartridges loaded too there optimum levels, well'.., there's no clear winner with any bullet weight.

436

I ran the numbers on the Big Game Info Ballistic Calculator and came up with some difference numbers. First, why would you zero at 100yds? Using the MPBR suggested zero range provides much better numbers downrange. Using the same numbers for bullet gr, BC & velocity these numbers came up:

temp 59, alt 1000

7mm Rem Mag (range - drop - energy) Drift @ 1000yds = 72.1"
100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 - 600 - 700 - 800 - 900 - 1000
2.6-1.9-(4.2)-(16.4)-(35.6)-(62.6)-(98.6)-(144.9)-(203.0)-(274.7)
2891-2567-2274-2009-1768-1549-1353-1179-1025-889

300 Win Mag (range - drop - energy) Drift @ 100 yds = 62.9"
100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 - 600 - 700 - 800 - 900 - 1000
2.6-2.0-(4.0)-(15.8)-(34.2)-(60.0)-(94.1)-(137.6)-(191.6)-(257.7)
3411-3067-2751-2462-2197-1955-1734-1534-1354-1192

Power downrange goes to the 300wm...but so does the recoil. If 889 ft-lbs is sufficient for your target at 1000yds, then the 7mm is definite,y a more comfortable option. We can through numbers back and forth, but the intended use drives the choice in my opinion.

I was debating a long range Elk rifle for an out west trip. I was advised by many on the virtues of the flat shooting 7mm Rem Mag. I went through the numbers over and over and bought a 300WM.

 

[setandglass]

Well here is what I can tell ya. I had a 300 wby shooting 210 bergers at 2850. my friend has a 300 rem ultra mag push 210"s at 2930. I sold the 300 wby bought the 7mm rem ultra mag and now i shoot 180 bergers at 3230 fps my other friend has a 7mm ultra mag pushing 180"s at 3327.( we shoot the same load his gun is just faster) I shoot at 2550 feet you run the numbers. In the defence of the little 7mm lets not forget that the guys from best of the west use 168 berger on the elk they shoot at extreme ranges. I had the 30 cal i prefer the 7mm ultra now.

 

[jabey9210]

Definitely 7mm all day if you compare 7mm to 30 cal of the same parent case the 7mm will always out perform the 30 cal. in the 7mm rem mag vs the 300 win mag the 300 has a larger case capacity than the 7 RM. but compare the 7mm wsm to the 300wsm or the 280 vs the 30-06 and you get quite a different scenario. If you load them with the same weight of bullet the 7mm is ballistically superior and surpasses the 30 in velocity and energy as the distance increases. Now if you load similar b.c.'s like say 7mm 180 berger vld's and 30 cal 210 gr berger vlds then what happens is the 30 cal looses velocity and the the same thing happens the farther they fly the more the 7mm shines and has more energy.

 

[Nomosendero]

I had to go back and look at the original question, which was not 7mm bore vs 30 cal bore with the same case, but 7RM vs 300WM. And because of that the 300WM is the winner, the larger 300 case makes up for lttle better BC (if both use optimal bullets) & 300 hits harder. I used the 7 for about 15 years, but went to the 300WM seversal years ago & am quite pleased, but both are great.

 

[Broz]

Now if you load similar b.c.'s like say 7mm 180 berger vld's and 30 cal 210 gr berger vlds then what happens is the 30 cal looses velocity and the the same thing happens the farther they fly the more the 7mm shines and has more energy.

I am going to be nice here and just say you are a little mixed up on what happens with heavier bullets.

.

 

[brentc]

Since I have both I feel that I have a dog in this fight. In most instances I prefer 300 Mags with heavy bullets for the big critters. There is a lot more than meets the eye in this comparison that exceeds what can be explained by a ballistic calculator. Ballistic calculators love the 7mm.

Delivering massive damage with high energy and momentum into muscle tissue and bone will go to the bullet with more mass and frontal area when comparing apples to apples in both cartridges.

 

[Broz]

I know the OP was comparing the 7 rem to the 300 win. Although I have owned plenty of both I have spent some serious range time lately with both the 300 win and the 7mm-300 win we build. That comparison using the 30 with a 210 and the 7 with a 180 has been fun. But I am still packing the 300 win so far. We will see how the new 195 Bergers work out, that could push me into a change.... but only if it is something big when we shoot both on a windy day at 1000.

Jeff

 

[bigngreen]

Since I have both I feel that I have a dog in this fight. In most instances I prefer 300 Mags with heavy bullets for the big critters. There is a lot more than meets the eye in this comparison that exceeds what can be explained by a ballistic calculator. Ballistic calculators love the 7mm.

Delivering massive damage with high energy and momentum into muscle tissue and bone will go to the bullet with more mass and frontal area when comparing apples to apples in both cartridges.

Very good post, I love ballistic calculators but reserve final judgment till bullets land on fur, that's when the numbers get tallied!!!!