7mm stw with 195 berger eol

[WildRose]

Has anyone tried Rl33 with the STW? Seems that would be a good option in the big case also.

Haven't shot the Berger's but RL33 and H1000 are my "go to" powders for the STW and pretty much all of my larger cased magnums.

 

[Capt RB]

Thank WR

 

[Buster Hemlock]

Thought I'd actually sign up to share this info I got from Berger when I contacted them in January 2016 about the 195 EOL. Hope it helps, and I wonder why Berger hasn't put it on their site....

 

[dougduey]

this technique works like a champ to get a good starting load for anything. Especially magnums 10 rounds gets you in the ball park.

I switched to this method to get me "in the ball park", too, once I got a Magnetto Speed. I shoot 0.5 gr increments until I hit pressure, then back off 1.5-2.0, then work up in 0.2 gr increments to see where the velocity "flattens" out (usually a node is 0.4-0.8 gr in size, but sometimes larger). Then I'll work up and down around that node in 0.2 gr increments to see which is the most accurate ( without the Magnetto Speed). Verify the load with a 5 shot group and 5 shots with the Magnetto Speed to get your final velocity average, SD & ES and you're done.

 

[willowwolfe1975]

this technique works like a champ to get a good starting load for anything. Especially magnums 10 rounds gets you in the ball park.

Thanks for the information.

I have finally found some decent loads with the powders that I chose to start with. It took awhile longer than I had expected due to a lot of bad weather up here in the north. I had to wait for decent days for shooting.

This is what I've got so far...
The longest COAL I can put in my chamber is 3.853, but none of the powders I chose seemed to work well with the bullets near the lands (which seems very counter intuitive to me).

Retumbo:
Using the powder range given by Berger (74.5 - 78.2) the retumbo produced severe over pressure at 76.3 grains where there was extremely heavy bolt lift and primer pockets were stretched beyond use. This occurred at all olgive lengths of 3.070 (max) back down to 3.030. 3.030 is where I was able to get the best group again using 76.3 grains. 76.5 grain again produced pressure. Decreasing the COAL from 3.030 despite any change in powder load increased group size.

The best group I produced with retumbo was: 0.328" at 100 yards using 76.3 grains, Federal 215m, and hornady brass. Olgive 3.030, and of course the Berger 195 EOL. The weather conditions were as follows:
Temp - (-38C)
Humidity - 78%
Pressure - 102.9 kpa
Elevation - 224m
Wind - +/- 16 km from behind with occasional gusts.

This makes me a little concerned for you fella's down South where the temperatures are much nicer. I'd certainly back off the loads. Again, even in this cold I over pressure at the mid range of the powder ranges provided.

Retumbo seemed to produce consistent groups with change in powder charge and olgive where most groups landed between 0.500 and 1.100" at 100 yards. The other powders were producing groups wildly unrelated to each other such as a 1" group change with 0.5 grain powder change...

IMR 7828 -
7828 has yet to produce a decent group (depending on what you call decent I suppose).
Berger gave load data range of (67-70.3). I experienced no over pressure issues from min-max loads, and will explore beyond this max in the future.
After all testing with loads and olgive measurement adjustments the best group I got was with 67.8 grains which produce an average group of 0.536" at 100 yards. Olgive length was 3.040. All components the same as listed for retumbo as were weather conditions (within a few degrees from day to day).

Hands down the best powder in my gun is the IMR 7977.

IMR 7977
No pressure issues from min-max powder charge (69.5-73.5). However, there was a large change in group size with 0.5 grain changes. Interestingly though I found 2 sweet spots in the powder range provided by Berger. Both groups occurred with an Olgive measurement of 3.030 (31 thousandths longer than the Berger test load). The first I found was at 72.5 g which produced an average group of 0.261" at 100 yards, and the second load of 75.0 g produced an average group of 0.230" at 200 yards. These were 5 shot groups eliminating the furthest hit.

So, I have definitely built a good rifle that is shooting awesome at this time. I think I'll be sticking to the 7977 for this bullet. However, I am a little disappointed that my bullets aren't very long; they look so much cooler at an olgive of 3.070!!
Despite the current results I am going to continue to test the 7828 as I know there has to be a better load for that powder. However, now that I have this gun figured out I might just need to build another one in a calibre that will take the 7828!

Next I"ll work up the Hornady 180 VLD bullet, then the Sierra 160 TMK as I have a couple thousand of each kicking around that I had used for my old 7RM's. I'll let you know what I get.

I cant access the areas where I have targets set at distance until the spring gets here, but I really look forward to ringing some gongs at some longer distances when I can.

A change that I made from the original set-up was that I removed my vortex scope and put back on my Scorpion optic. I have always liked the vortex, but the Scorpion products have always held better for me.

 

[willowwolfe1975]

Thought I'd actually sign up to share this info I got from Berger when I contacted them in January 2016 about the 195 EOL. Hope it helps, and I wonder why Berger hasn't put it on their site....View attachment 124208 View attachment 124207

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, where I am I can only get the H1000, Retumbo, 4831, and 7828 (from the list). There are some great powders listed there from what I have read; however, I have literally no access to them.....Would sure like to try some one day though!
Have you tried the 4831 in the Nosler 28 or STW? I use it in other rifles, but really never put it on the plate for my 7mm's.

 

[Satterlee Scott]

Thanks for the information.

I have finally found some decent loads with the powders that I chose to start with. It took awhile longer than I had expected due to a lot of bad weather up here in the north. I had to wait for decent days for shooting.

This is what I've got so far...
The longest COAL I can put in my chamber is 3.853, but none of the powders I chose seemed to work well with the bullets near the lands (which seems very counter intuitive to me).

Retumbo:
Using the powder range given by Berger (74.5 - 78.2) the retumbo produced severe over pressure at 76.3 grains where there was extremely heavy bolt lift and primer pockets were stretched beyond use. This occurred at all olgive lengths of 3.070 (max) back down to 3.030. 3.030 is where I was able to get the best group again using 76.3 grains. 76.5 grain again produced pressure. Decreasing the COAL from 3.030 despite any change in powder load increased group size.

The best group I produced with retumbo was: 0.328" at 100 yards using 76.3 grains, Federal 215m, and hornady brass. Olgive 3.030, and of course the Berger 195 EOL. The weather conditions were as follows:
Temp - (-38C)
Humidity - 78%
Pressure - 102.9 kpa
Elevation - 224m
Wind - +/- 16 km from behind with occasional gusts.

This makes me a little concerned for you fella's down South where the temperatures are much nicer. I'd certainly back off the loads. Again, even in this cold I over pressure at the mid range of the powder ranges provided.

Retumbo seemed to produce consistent groups with change in powder charge and olgive where most groups landed between 0.500 and 1.100" at 100 yards. The other powders were producing groups wildly unrelated to each other such as a 1" group change with 0.5 grain powder change...

IMR 7828 -
7828 has yet to produce a decent group (depending on what you call decent I suppose).
Berger gave load data range of (67-70.3). I experienced no over pressure issues from min-max loads, and will explore beyond this max in the future.
After all testing with loads and olgive measurement adjustments the best group I got was with 67.8 grains which produce an average group of 0.536" at 100 yards. Olgive length was 3.040. All components the same as listed for retumbo as were weather conditions (within a few degrees from day to day).

Hands down the best powder in my gun is the IMR 7977.

IMR 7977
No pressure issues from min-max powder charge (69.5-73.5). However, there was a large change in group size with 0.5 grain changes. Interestingly though I found 2 sweet spots in the powder range provided by Berger. Both groups occurred with an Olgive measurement of 3.030 (31 thousandths longer than the Berger test load). The first I found was at 72.5 g which produced an average group of 0.261" at 100 yards, and the second load of 75.0 g produced an average group of 0.230" at 200 yards. These were 5 shot groups eliminating the furthest hit.

So, I have definitely built a good rifle that is shooting awesome at this time. I think I'll be sticking to the 7977 for this bullet. However, I am a little disappointed that my bullets aren't very long; they look so much cooler at an olgive of 3.070!!
Despite the current results I am going to continue to test the 7828 as I know there has to be a better load for that powder. However, now that I have this gun figured out I might just need to build another one in a calibre that will take the 7828!

Next I"ll work up the Hornady 180 VLD bullet, then the Sierra 160 TMK as I have a couple thousand of each kicking around that I had used for my old 7RM's. I'll let you know what I get.

I cant access the areas where I have targets set at distance until the spring gets here, but I really look forward to ringing some gongs at some longer distances when I can.

A change that I made from the original set-up was that I removed my vortex scope and put back on my Scorpion optic. I have always liked the vortex, but the Scorpion products have always held better for me.

I look for accuracy nodes way off the lands. I start .030 off and work away from the lands until its shoots. The lead angles on our modern reamers take care of the VLD. I typically find the best accuracy -050 off. Even the Burger VLDs like to jump.

 

[willowwolfe1975]

I look for accuracy nodes way off the lands. I start .030 off and work away from the lands until its shoots. The lead angles on our modern reamers take care of the VLD. I typically find the best accuracy -050 off. Even the Burger VLDs like to jump.

Well, I'm glad to hear this.
I always hear so much about guys having their bullets seated just off the lands and some guys even jam a little. What you say pretty much matches what I have found. I've only been reloading a few years and typically stick to the book religiously, but have begun to venture out a little as I gain confidence, knowledge, and understanding. Yet, despite this I was really starting to wonder what was going on as my load(s) are shooting best at 30-40 thousandths off the lands.

Thanks!

 

[brentc]

I believe finding these flat spots really negates the temperature swings that occur with other powders.

And I believe you are dead right.

 

[dougduey]

And I believe you are dead right.

I will concur with this opinion. I've found that once in that "flat spot", you don't get much fluctuation in velocity and accuracy with changes in temperature. Every now and then, I don't get the initial accuracy I'm looking for when I find the flat spot, so I have to play with seating depth to dial it in

 

[curtiscd]

I will concur with this opinion. I've found that once in that "flat spot", you don't get much fluctuation in velocity and accuracy with changes in temperature. Every now and then, I don't get the initial accuracy I'm looking for when I find the flat spot, so I have to play with seating depth to dial it in

This is my findings as well!

 

[willowwolfe1975]

I switched to this method to get me "in the ball park", too, once I got a Magnetto Speed. I shoot 0.5 gr increments until I hit pressure, then back off 1.5-2.0, then work up in 0.2 gr increments to see where the velocity "flattens" out (usually a node is 0.4-0.8 gr in size, but sometimes larger). Then I'll work up and down around that node in 0.2 gr increments to see which is the most accurate ( without the Magnetto Speed). Verify the load with a 5 shot group and 5 shots with the Magnetto Speed to get your final velocity average, SD & ES and you're done.

Thanks so much for the link to this video.
You saved me probably 500$ in ammo I'd have wasted using my usual practice. Today I used a modified version of this method to develop the Hornady 180g VLD loads for all three powders that I've been using (Retumbo, 7977, and 7828).
I took the published powder range from Hornady divided it into 0.5 increments, then took only the top 5 and started there. So it took 5 rounds for each powder and only hit pressure with the Retumbo at the highest load. I then made 3 rounds for each 0.5 starting 0.5 below pressure for the retumbo and from the highest load for 7977 and 7828. I did this for three 0.5 increments back down the ladder. So 12 rounds for each powder.
I can't believe how well this worked! The 180 VLD is an incredible bullet in the STW. I couldn't get anything good from it in my 7RM. I was able to find a sweet spot in each powder with this bullet. Retumbo grouped - 0.235, 7977 - 0.148, and 7828 - 0.135. I've never in my life had such good groups, and never have I developed a load with such little effort! With the groups I got today I don't think there is any reason at all to mess with the loads any further.
So in total it took 51 bullets to develop 3 loads! Thats pretty awesome for me.
So here is the data, and I'm going to try to add pictures if I can figure that out.

Elevation 224m
Temp - (-12C)
Pressure - 101.4 kpa
Humidity - 82%
Wind 8 km/h from back

Hornady 180 VLD

Retumbo - 76.0g Olgive 3.040, Federal 215 primer, Hornady brass.
Group - 0.235"
IMR 7977 -75.5g, Olgive 3.040, Fed 215, Hornady brass.
Group - 0.148"
IMR 7828 - 74.0g, Olgive 3.040, Fed 215, Hornady brass.
Group - 0.135

Best groups of my life so far.
Next up in the 7 STW is Sierra 160 TMK, a little light, but I have a bunch left over from the old rem mag.

The targets are just ones I got off line. the grid is 5/8" I don't know why it comes out that way.

 

[GoodmanCPA]

Thanks for info. My 7 mm STW was built by Bob Hart. He converted my idle like new 7 mm mag Remington 700 BDL, by switching to a 24 inch Hart barrel plus 2 inch muzzle brake. He bored the bolt, accurized the action, and changed the beautiful wood stock to a fine Bell & Carlson stock that fits perfectly. I reluctantly sold the wood stock and 7 mm mag barrel. He suggested 80 grains of IMR 7828. I worked up 13 ladder loads in .50 grain increments, using Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and Nosler brass. All shot under one inch at 100 yards. 79.8 grains shot 4 rounds into one perfect hole. At first, i thought I missed the target! I cannot shoot better! 80 grains is well above the recommended maximum load per the Nosler and other reloading manuals. I get no pressure signs. I do not have a chronograph. The books say I am probably getting around 3200 feet per second. I am at 700 feet above sea level in PA, with abundant humidity. Temperature was around 70 degrees F. i do not have my notes handy. The bullets were seated just off the lands, around one thousandth of an inch. But these long rounds would not fit in the Remington magazine. So I marked them for hand loading in to the chamber. Then I slid more bullets inside the cases about .25 inches to fit the magazine, and marked them accordingly for follow up shots. They still group under an inch at 100 yards. I do not have the rounds or notes handy to give precise measurements. I have not tried heavier bullets in my 7 mm STW since I have other hunting rifles. I have a Ruger model 77 in 30-06 (150 to 180 grain bullets) , a Weatherby Mark V in .300 Weatherby mag, (180 grain bullets), a Savage Bear Hunter 116 in .338 Winchester mag. (225 grain bullets), and a Winchester model 70 in .375 H & H mag. (270 grain bullets). They all shoot very accurate groups. I wish I needed and used them all! Bob Hart said he shot an elk several hundred yards away, with the recommended Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet using 80 grains of IMR-7828. Nosler advised and I believe I should have used Nosler Accubond bullets, not Ballistic Tips for long range shooting of deer. I may switch next time I hand load rounds.