This is a strain gauge for testing plastic welds. Note that it measures using pounds. Its know different checking bullet grip. The bullet will move when enough pressure is applied. If the brass is prepped the exact same way and everything is equal the bullet will move at the exact same weight everytime.
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7mm rem mag bullet pull
- Thread starter Blade1
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MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
That is why we anneal, to keep neck tension consistent.
As I said, I believe you are over thinkibg things, just as trying to get perfect 0 runout is, the bullet is released prior to it entering the rifling completely, it still has some wiggle room because the neck will have already expanded.
If you still feel your method is best, then go for it, but using how force is used to seat a bullet is not in fact the same as bullet release. The force to seat it may be the same, but the tension holding the bullet quite possibly varies due to brass hardness. Hard brass deflects less than soft brass, do you see my point?
Cheers.
gun)
dok7mm
Well-Known Member
Simply stated. Neck tension provides the resisting force to the bullet seating operation. This is true whether using bushing dies or conventional dies w/expander ball. Consistent bullet release, upon firing, is dependent on overcoming that neck tension. The more consistent the neck tension, the more consistent the bullet release pressure (or speed). This is why most shooters put so much effort into case preparation. We sort brass, some turn necks, some anneal --- all in an effort to keep neck tension as uniform as possible and obtain lower SD and ES numbers. When you have consistency in all reloading steps + a capable rifle, the result should be much smaller groups at longer ranges. JMO
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Brass has 'spring', it has a memory, it doesn't like to change, so, as you seat a bullet, the brass expands, but at the same time, it's trying to go back to the size it was. This sprinyness is what holds a bullet. The amount of force it takes to expand the brass, does not mean that's how much force is being applied to the bullet.
This characteristic of brass is the reason it work hardens, as work hardening sets in, the brass loses it's spring and therefore has less tension on the bullet even though seating force is increased.
If you read the article on accurateshooter, you will notice ge talks of seating force, but does not quote any figures.
As I said previously, the only way I get consistent tension, is to anneal the necks every other firing for my comp rigs. My hunting rifles I just do 3 different bushing sizes starting at .002" and going up in size to .003" and .004", whichever gives the best groups is what I use. Also, if I use an expander, they get polished and I always use powdered graphite brushed inside the necks. My hunting rifle brass gets annealed every 4th firing prior to sizing.
Cheers,
gun)
Heres one for you.This is just a example of how there are no real dead set rules.This guy I know,member here has world Records in 1000 Bench,shoots a bench type cartridge design,no annealing,bushing sizes,uses his own design homemade fixture for seating pressure,along with a multitude of other things,some that are are of the charts and Im not bringing up.He talkes about writting a book on it some time.He shoots tiny at range
Ive read that. Good article. Guys the bathroom scales work. Weather its the exact measurement or not. After i shot a tite group i took a round and check to see how many pds. It took to make the bullet move. It was a 100. I reload and it took 80 and had the same group. I reloaded again and had 60. The group opened up.
It got worse from there. I annealed i only had 40 lbs. I took a hammer to the cases. I grabbed 3 new cases uniformed them. Adjust the die to give 100lbs resistance and the group tightened back up. As long as i stay around 80 to a 100 lbs of resistance my groups stay consistant. It showed me what kind of resistance i should be feeling when seating a bullet if neck tension is right. My measured neck tension with every load while experimenting stayed the same. I could feel the difference when seating the bullets each time. It may not be the best way but it will give you an idea of where you need to be. Its save me alot of wasted ammo.
One poster mention his friends rifle that set many 1000 records and he doesn't use bushing dies and I bet he's not using factory chambered rifle and none of my hunting rifles are factory chambered rifles either.
I started using bushing dies on my BR rifles years ago and today you can have rifles build with no turn necks.
One reason I use bushing dies is that I load at the range and I get to see instant result on changing bushing size/seating depth/amt of powder. I only do one at a time. If something doesn't look good I don't have to pull bullets which is great on load development.
I'm not going to say how you load is wrong as when I first started using bushing dies/arbor press, I use to seat bullets with arbor press on bathroom scale and I can tell pretty much by feel which bushing size is best.
K&M makes arbor press now with dial indicator and I wish they had one when I started and press is about $200.
Sorry Tom,It was no annealing,and yes bushing dies.He gets alot of reloads on brass.And yes 6 dasher,and hes been at it a while before they had a tool for everything.He is a Tom also
