7mm Rem Mag best for FClass & Hunting?

[Stu76x]

Google 6.5 shootout and you will find a story on the 3 cartridges at "demigodllc"

 

[sevenmm]

gun) I know the 7RM is a big boomer, but I wouldn't think you'd literally burn a barrel during a normal 20 match. I have been watching a guy at our range blast away with a 300 win mag with great results and he has had it for some time.

Of course his barrel (and that of my 7mm RM) will probably only last for 1000-1200 rounds before it is trashed, but I am only using it as a secondary target gun & hunting rig, so it will last for at least a couple of years.

 

[dsculley]

Not one match, but one season if you shoot on a regular basis. Perhaps not shot out to the point it is trashed, but to the point that accuracy will be eroded.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Google 6.5 shootout and you will find a story on the 3 cartridges at "demigodllc"

Yep, and the .260 AI still beat-out the 6.5 Creepmoor...

I'm a big .260 AI fan. Don't have one yet, but wanted one for many years now.

 

[nosualc]

I asked him what he would recommend for F-class and he quickly named 3 chamberings: 260 Remington, 6.5 X 47 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmoor. In discussing these rounds with him, it became apparent that he prefers the 6.5 X 47 Lapua. It seems to me that these are all very similar chamberings with minor differences. You can push the 6.5 130 gr bullets to around 3,000 fps.

First, Jim is a good guy.

Second, you're right, there isn't much difference between the three. No wrong answer here.

Third, the 6.5x47L is very popular in F-Class. It was designed to be a 300 yard target round. I know the creedmoor and the 260 are popular in tactical shooting circles. The biggest difference is that the 6.5x47L uses a small rifle primer instead of a large one. This makes for a very sturdy case head.

Don't let the Lapua brass expense scare you away. Yes, it's expensive, but it's very very good, and it'll last a long long time if you take care of it.

-nosualc

 

[dsculley]

Thanks, Nosualc, for clearing up the issue about the small primer. I knew that Jim talked as if this was a good thing but I did not think to ask him why. It does make sense now.

There seems to be a lot of variation in opinions regarding expected barrel life for the three as well. If you look at the load manuals, the max load for a particular bullet weight is very close for all three. Is there really much difference in expected barrel life among the three?

I was considering the .260 because I have lots of .308 I can neck down, but by the time I buy the dies to neck down and a neck turning tool I can buy the Lapua brass for about the same cost without all the additional work.

I have only spoke to Jim twice now, but I have heard lots of nice things about him. You only have to talk for five minutes or so to KNOW that you are talking to someone who is very knowledgeable. In my discussion with him, it was very obvious that the Lapua was his favorite of the three. Of course, he did then say that any of the three would be a good choice.

I want to thank each of you for your input. Each of you have given me something to think about. I guess now I just need to decide which I want to try. I will let you know what I wind up with and how it performs.

Dennis

 

[dkhunt14]

I believe the reason that no one is using the 7mm RM in really competitive circles is because of the change in rules about 3 to 5 years ago when the NRA ruled that muzzle brakes were no longer allowed in NRA sanctioned matches.

If you read deeply, you may run across an article about the JP eliminator brake which used to be mounted on every F class rifle I shot against (and my own) but shooters began dropping points due to recoil fatigue without a brake.

So they started going with short action calibes like 6BR and 6XC, 7mm SAUM, 7mm-08 and such. But all of these variants are not really significantly "better" than the 7mm mag or even the 243 Winchester for those 6mm calibes.

I think this is starting to boil down to a popular method of thinking that if it is not the latest, it CANNOT be the greatest.

I have seen these calibes, shot them, shot against them; but I have not noticed a significant difference in performance to older, more widespread cartridges.

The most important thing about shooting to hunt or shooting to win, is to make your rifle shoot great, and know it through and through.

The rest of that stuff really doesn't matter.

Brakes have nothing to do with it. A lot of guys are using 300 WSM with a 230 Berger and I guarantee they recoil harder then a 7 REM Mag does. A 20 round string plus sighters in a 20 minute or less and a 7Mag gets hot. The throat goes quick and you will be lucky to get 800 rounds of the accuracy needed to win. The 7 SAUM is a very accurate cartridge and barrels last a lot longer. Less powder and more accuracy. Some cartridges are just easier to get shooting and have bigger nodes where they will shoot great. The short fat cases like the 7SAUM and the 300 WSM are that way. Velocity doesn't win, accuracy does.
It's just like in 1000 yard benchrest the big cases like the 6.5-300, 7-300 and the 30-378 Disappeared a long time ago. Even the 308 Baer and the 6.5-284 have disappeared. The short cases like the 6 Dasher and 300 WSM now dominate it. The groups have gotten so small that the aggregates they are shooting now is smaller then the best groups shot 10 years ago. Matt

 

[MudRunner2005]

Brakes have nothing to do with it. A lot of guys are using 300 WSM with a 230 Berger and I guarantee they recoil harder then a 7 REM Mag does. A 20 round string plus sighters in a 20 minute or less and a 7Mag gets hot. The throat goes quick and you will be lucky to get 800 rounds of the accuracy needed to win. The 7 SAUM is a very accurate cartridge and barrels last a lot longer. Less powder and more accuracy. Some cartridges are just easier to get shooting and have bigger nodes where they will shoot great. The short fat cases like the 7SAUM and the 300 WSM are that way. Velocity doesn't win, accuracy does.
It's just like in 1000 yard benchrest the big cases like the 6.5-300, 7-300 and the 30-378 Disappeared a long time ago. Even the 308 Baer and the 6.5-284 have disappeared. The short cases like the 6 Dasher and 300 WSM now dominate it. The groups have gotten so small that the aggregates they are shooting now is smaller then the best groups shot 10 years ago. Matt

Please elaborate on how any one cartridge can be more "accurate" than another... I'm pretty sure accuracy has more to do with the barrel and load than it has to do with the case design.

Just because something is easier to "get shooting" doesn't mean it's a more accurate cartridge design.

 

[dkhunt14]

The 7 SAUM and 300 WSM have bigger nodes where they want to shoot accurately. Most all of them shoot really good. The Big cases like the 7-300, 6.5-300. 30-378 and the 308 Baer have all but disappeared in the long range game. They are just too hard to get the accuracy needed. It is just like in short range Benchrest the 6PPC rules. Where I shoot there are 70 Heavyguns and 90 light guns shoot every other week. I get to see a lot of 10 shot targets in a year. These guys have tried everything imaginable and build many guns to try and get an advantage. Even the 7 WSM will not compete. Lots of guys have tried and the accuracy needed to win is not there. The groups needed to win got to be in the 4 inch or so range for 10 shots on a good day. My 6 match aggregates have been in the 5 inch range almost every year since 2005. That means for 6 targets out of ten you average 5 inches for 10 shots. That is including all the windy days you get. The 7 Mag is a great hunting cartridge but not good for longrange targets. The competition is so tight now and sometimes you lose by a couple thousandths of an inch. If you shot these guns at longrange you would see the difference. Ask Bountyhunter or guys that have actually done it. Even the 6.5-284 that was really popular in light guns 5 or 6 years ago have gone away. Yes tuning matters but some cartridges are just so much more accurate and easier to get to shoot. Matt

 

[sevenmm]

Hi guys,
Well finally have the my 7mm RM Sendero back with new Madco barrel and Jewell trigger. Took it to the range last week and ran it in as well as doing some load testing.

I wasn't overly impressed - tried 180gn Bergers behind 61gn, 62gn and 63gn ADI 2213SC, but all the groups were around 0.75MOA. I know that I need to probably test different powders and projectiles, but I expected a little better.

I previously used 162gn Amaxes in the old barrel, so I might try these and maybe lighter Bergers in 162, 168gn (not sure what they make).

What do you guys prefer, 160s or 180s for the 7mm RM. My guess is 1 in 9 twist barrels probably work better with 160s, but I'd like to hear other experiences ????

 

[roninflag]

Most are now shooting the 180. since my sendero and modle 70 laredo do not have brakes i shot the 168 with re-19.,