7LRM or 7WSM This is painful!

[woolecox]

Just my opinion. Not flaming anyone here, I just get bored with all these new wildcats doing nothing but the same old thing......

My thoughts exactly. A couple years back when one of Gunwerks main offerings was the LR-1000 in 7mm Rem Mag, I set out to build one that was just as accurate and rugged as theirs. And to come in at half of their price. I took a trued Rem 700 action to Shilen Rifles (within driving distance of my home) and told them what I wanted. 7mm Rem was the decided on cartridge because of it's proven ability, affordability, and availability of components.

Shilen mated the action with a #4 magnum sporter select match grade barrel. I had McMillan make a custom camo hunter stock (1/2" over standard pull) with a decelerator pad. Badger Ordnance bottom metal with three 5 shot detachable mags. Jewel trigger. Action glass bedded. I topped it with a Leupold 4.5-14x50 LR (currently having turrets made. May go to the NF later for more power).

I have been able to buy up 400 rounds of Federal Premium brass (new, trimmed and turned). I use Forster bench rest dies. Fed GM215M primers and a max load of H1000. Top it off with a 168 VLD. All available and affordable.

Well it came in at about 1/3 the price of a LR-1000. The gun shoots 5 shot groups (not three) around .5". Velocity is around 3100 fps. The gun does everything I need it to do in North America. I don't hunt bears.

Guess I'm just old and old fashioned but I shoot this gun and a couple of others a lot. I hunt with it a lot. I just wont pay $400 per 100 rounds of ammo for modest and insignificant gains IMHO. The most exotic thing I own in a 243AI which Redding makes competition dies for and I form the brass from 243 Lapua while shooting yotes, varmints and silhouettes.

Besides, this 7mm Rem cartridge shoots farther than the vast majority of any shooter's ability. I do enjoy reading these post though.

 

[WildRose]

So basically its a 7mm Dakota or more accurately a 7mm-300 Dakota. Sounds like alot of money to spend when you could get the exact same performance or more in a standard commerical chambering such as the STW which will match it or the 7mm RUM which will exceed it.

I am sure the guns are quality but it seems like there are alot of guys out there saying that they have developed a new wildcat that offers great new performance but in the end, they are no different then whats already out there only packaged a bit differently so someone can hang their name on it.

I had some say the same thing to me when I came out with my 7mm AM many years ago, that was until they realized that it was in fact getting legit 3300 fps with 200 gr bullets and +3500 fps with 160 gr Accubonds.

As far as barrel life, its more myth then anything else concerning extremely short barrel life with larger 7mm magnums. Now if you want to shoot the thing 500 times a year, ya, your going to dramatically shorten your barrel life. If you get the rifle set up and use it for big game hunting, even the most extreme 7mm will last you MANY, MANY hunting seasons.

My lightweight 7mm AM is driving a 160 gr Accubond at 3450 fps (26" barrel) and has over 700 rounds down the barrel. I started hunting with it in 2003 and to date it has taken nearly 20 head of big game at ranges past 500 yards with half of those being over 700 yards or more. Longest being around 920 yards. This is out of a sporter weight rifle with 3.5-10x 40mm Mk4 in the saddles.

Point being, from what many of the "experts" warned me about the 7mm AM, its barrel would never last long enough to develope a good load. Since that time I developed a great load with the old 200 gr ULD RBBT and used that for three years, then developed a load with the 175 gr SMK that was great and used that for a couple years when the ULD RBBT was not available, then switched to the 160 gr Accubond and have used that load for four seasons with nothing but great results.

This year I checked its 100 yard sight in which is supposed to be 2.8" high at 100 yards and it cut a 0.325" cloverleaf. This from a barrel that for all intent and purpose should have been shot out many years ago.

Point being, how you shoot and care for your rifle will make much more difference then what its chambered in concerning throat life. Keep it clean, keep it cool and it will last you A LONG TIME as a big game hunting rifle. Shot 5 shot groups, do alot of load development and ya, you will eat up a barrel faster so its more on the owner then the chambering.

If they get formed brass made up, that would be a huge benefit, especially if its stronger then the Dakota brass that is currently available. Till then, it would offer nothing that the 7mm Dakota or 7mm STW would offer you except a higher price tag.

Just my opinion. Not flaming anyone here, I just get bored with all these new wildcats doing nothing but the same old thing......

I'm a lot the same way in fact worse. If I can't buy factory ammo for it I'm simply not going to own it.

I've known too many people who ended up on a "hunt of a lifetime" somewhere and arrived without their ammo due to lost luggage, broke down vehicles swapped out with a rental en route or other such problems.

The other is simply the expense involved in finding custom brass or having to buy froma specific manufacturer.

I understand the allure of exotics and can't blame anyone who wants to own them, I just can't justify them for myself.

 

[joelbiltz]

When I orderd my rifle they were runining a christmas special that included free ammo with the purchase of the rifle. Im not going to say how many rounds because I dont want to step on any toes BUT it did make the LRM worth while for me. My advice is to call and talk it over with Aaron, he is very easy to talk to and will help you any way possible.

 

[ROOSEVELK]

I am always amazed when I get on this forum and see a lot of guys bashing Gunwerks and/or other custom shops and their prices and how you could build one for half the cost etc. Of course you could....that should go without saying.....anything you do yourself will be less expensive. I have a concrete construction company and there are many, many things people don't think about that I have to pay for, just to be in business and have employees. This drives the cost up and although many clients think you are getting rich on their job, typically I run on very slim margins...especially in this economy.

Point being....some people don't have the time or the knowledge to build a rifle like Gunwerks puts out. I wouldnt even know where to start! The coolest thing, in my opinion, is that they break it in, sight it in and when I get it all I have to do is develop my shooting skills. I will definitely know, more than likely, that when I'm not hitting or grouping well, that it's me and not the rifle.

Anyway, I placed my order for a LR-1000 7LRM two weeks ago and can't wait to get it. In the meantime, I can concentrate on my company and do what I do best and not waist time and money trying to put together a rifle that might not ever do what I want and if I put all that waisted development time towards my business, I should easily be able to pay for killer rifle.

Anyway.....I'm tired of all you guys bashing Gunwerks for putting out a quality firearm and earning an honest dollar. Isnt that what this country is about?

First and last post on any forum......goodbyegun)lightbulb

 

[moombaskier]

About 7 months ago I sent GunWerks a Stiller TAC 300 action along with a Broughton .284, 9twist, 5c, 5.75 fluted barrel to finish at 27 1/2" to be chambered in their 7LRM. They sent me back a Cerakote finished barreled action with a 3 port QD brake in 2 WEEKS! I couldn't be happier with their work. I'm getting 3130fps with a Berger 180VLD using 72.8grs. of H1000 lit with a 215m. I've posted pics of groups it has shot and it's crazy accurate. I did a lot of research before choosing the 7mm-375Ruger because it's efficient and cool at the same time. Arron and Mike were an absolute pleasure to do business with and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them again and it didn't take a freakin' year to get it done! COAL of my rounds is 3.455". So what other chambering comes close to those specs?

 

[Top Cat]

I'm in a little cunundrum. I want a 7lrm but the difference in velocity seems like about 150fps with the 180's between the two. The difference in price for the dies and brass is huge. Win vs hornady brass and propriety vs standard dies. Also the cost of the reamer and gunwerks to do the work is a big difference from what I normally pay from benchmark. I also pay no shipping to benchmark.what do we do here?

All this concern over 150 FPS?

7 WSM is very cool. 7RM is still a player as well. 7 Wby is a step up, but I doubt there is a real world 150 fps between any of them.

All things considered, you're going to end up with a 7mm that will do what a 7mm will do.

Barrel twist and bullet choice will have more effect on any final outcomes, all trumped by bullet placement...150 fps isn't even on that list.

Whatever you decide just remember...

You build it you gotta feed it!

TC

 

[woolecox]

I am always amazed when I get on this forum and see a lot of guys bashing Gunwerks and/or other custom shops and their prices and how you could build one for half the cost etc. Of course you could....that should go without saying.....anything you do yourself will be less expensive. I have a concrete construction company and there are many, many things people don't think about that I have to pay for, just to be in business and have employees. This drives the cost up and although many clients think you are getting rich on their job, typically I run on very slim margins...especially in this economy.

Point being....some people don't have the time or the knowledge to build a rifle like Gunwerks puts out. I wouldnt even know where to start! The coolest thing, in my opinion, is that they break it in, sight it in and when I get it all I have to do is develop my shooting skills. I will definitely know, more than likely, that when I'm not hitting or grouping well, that it's me and not the rifle.

Anyway, I placed my order for a LR-1000 7LRM two weeks ago and can't wait to get it. In the meantime, I can concentrate on my company and do what I do best and not waist time and money trying to put together a rifle that might not ever do what I want and if I put all that waisted development time towards my business, I should easily be able to pay for killer rifle.

Anyway.....I'm tired of all you guys bashing Gunwerks for putting out a quality firearm and earning an honest dollar. Isnt that what this country is about?

First and last post on any forum......goodbyegun)lightbulb

I for one am certainly not bashing Gunwerks. I think they make excellent rifles. A little too pricey for my blood but if it fits your budget, I think you are going to be very happy.

You are right about the break in an load development taking time, and of course, time is money. So if you get it, you will pay for it. I have the equipment, time, and the skill to develop my own loads. I also enjoy load development. Would not think of letting someone else develop a load for any of my long range rifles. This also develops my shooting skills and lets me learn (and catalog) the capability of the rifle and optics. To each his own.

I also enjoy getting involved in the build process as much as possible. I can install and adjust custom triggers, mount, lap, and level scopes, bed actions, etc. Would not trust anyone else to do these chores because I doubt they will spend the time or use the methods I use because they are too time consuming and costly.

The things I can't do I outsource to people like Shilen, McMillan, Badger Ordnance, etc. It took me a year to get the rifle done in my previous post but it was worth it to me. If a turnkey rifle and ammo is your deal, I am sure you will be pleases with Gunwerk's product.

Enjoy.

Woolly

 

[Pdvdh]

I am always amazed when I get on this forum and see a lot of guys bashing Gunwerks and/or other custom shops and their prices and how you could build one for half the cost etc. Of course you could....that should go without saying.....anything you do yourself will be less expensive. I have a concrete construction company and there are many, many things people don't think about that I have to pay for, just to be in business and have employees. This drives the cost up and although many clients think you are getting rich on their job, typically I run on very slim margins...especially in this economy.

Point being....some people don't have the time or the knowledge to build a rifle like Gunwerks puts out. I wouldnt even know where to start! The coolest thing, in my opinion, is that they break it in, sight it in and when I get it all I have to do is develop my shooting skills. I will definitely know, more than likely, that when I'm not hitting or grouping well, that it's me and not the rifle.

Anyway, I placed my order for a LR-1000 7LRM two weeks ago and can't wait to get it. In the meantime, I can concentrate on my company and do what I do best and not waist time and money trying to put together a rifle that might not ever do what I want and if I put all that waisted development time towards my business, I should easily be able to pay for killer rifle.

Anyway.....I'm tired of all you guys bashing Gunwerks for putting out a quality firearm and earning an honest dollar. Isnt that what this country is about?

First and last post on any forum......goodbyegun)lightbulb

It doesn't appear that you've been on this Forum very long, or posted very much. I'll say one thing. It doesn't take you long to reach final conclusions. Joined December 2011. Bailed in January 2012...

 

[midnightmalloy]

Thanks for taking this way off topic guys. Im going with the 7 lrm so we can kill this thread.

 

[Coyboy]

Aaron sent me a pc of formed brass and the case was not intended to be the fastest.

It is interesting, for those not familiar with the 375 ruger the case head is the same as a belted magnum at .532" but the case has no belt and has a very shallow taper to the shoulder.

What Aaron did was neck it down and lengthen the neck, so it kind of resembles an oversized 6.5x47 lapua. Yet the case is shorter than your standard magnums, thus allowing it to feed in standard LA mag boxes or DBM assemblies with out ever worrying about bullets set into the case capacity.

This cartriage lacks the rebated rim of the ultramag and should feed as well or better than most cartriages in a LA.

I personally like it and think it will catch on once his labeled brass becomes available.

 

[moombaskier]

All this concern over 150 FPS?

7 WSM is very cool. 7RM is still a player as well. 7 Wby is a step up, but I doubt there is a real world 150 fps between any of them.

All things considered, you're going to end up with a 7mm that will do what a 7mm will do.

Barrel twist and bullet choice will have more effect on any final outcomes, all trumped by bullet placement...150 fps isn't even on that list.

Whatever you decide just remember...

You build it you gotta feed it!

TC

I needed a round that would be at least 1900fps at 950-1000yds. here in western Oregon at 500-1500' elevation that wouldn't kick my butt. I have been working on some Roosevelt elks hidie hole for 6yrs now. The absolute closest you can get to these bulls is 875yds. and they are typically at 950-1000yds. and that's after quite a hike. My buddy has a 300RUM that spits out a 210VLD at 3100fps using 93 or so grains of Retumbo. My 7LRM spits the 180VLD at 3130fps with better terminal ballistics with 21grs. less powder and it's a whole lot easier to shoot. I purchased the brass from GunWerks and after taking the high side off the necks it's doing just fine even though the headstamp is Hornady. I almost went with the 7STW and I'm glad I didn't.

 

[bigngreen]

I needed a round that would be at least 1900fps at 950-1000yds. here in western Oregon at 500-1500' elevation that wouldn't kick my butt. I have been working on some Roosevelt elks hidie hole for 6yrs now. The absolute closest you can get to these bulls is 875yds. and they are typically at 950-1000yds. and that's after quite a hike. My buddy has a 300RUM that spits out a 210VLD at 3100fps using 93 or so grains of Retumbo. My 7LRM spits the 180VLD at 3130fps with better terminal ballistics with 21grs. less powder and it's a whole lot easier to shoot. I purchased the brass from GunWerks and after taking the high side off the necks it's doing just fine even though the headstamp is Hornady. I almost went with the 7STW and I'm glad I didn't.

Man that sounds like a good time, I like that kinda hunting, your post just got me jacked as there is nothing better than hunting elk IMO!!!

 

[sp6x6]

I needed a round that would be at least 1900fps at 950-1000yds. here in western Oregon at 500-1500' elevation that wouldn't kick my butt. I have been working on some Roosevelt elks hidie hole for 6yrs now. The absolute closest you can get to these bulls is 875yds. and they are typically at 950-1000yds. and that's after quite a hike. My buddy has a 300RUM that spits out a 210VLD at 3100fps using 93 or so grains of Retumbo. My 7LRM spits the 180VLD at 3130fps with better terminal ballistics with 21grs. less powder and it's a whole lot easier to shoot. I purchased the brass from GunWerks and after taking the high side off the necks it's doing just fine even though the headstamp is Hornady. I almost went with the 7STW and I'm glad I didn't.

Sound to me like you are pushing the limit of the 7mm when your going from 875-1000as a starting point. Why not step up to a larger platform.

 

[WildRose]

I am always amazed when I get on this forum and see a lot of guys bashing Gunwerks and/or other custom shops and their prices and how you could build one for half the cost etc. Of course you could....that should go without saying.....anything you do yourself will be less expensive. I have a concrete construction company and there are many, many things people don't think about that I have to pay for, just to be in business and have employees. This drives the cost up and although many clients think you are getting rich on their job, typically I run on very slim margins...especially in this economy.

Point being....some people don't have the time or the knowledge to build a rifle like Gunwerks puts out. I wouldnt even know where to start! The coolest thing, in my opinion, is that they break it in, sight it in and when I get it all I have to do is develop my shooting skills. I will definitely know, more than likely, that when I'm not hitting or grouping well, that it's me and not the rifle.

Anyway, I placed my order for a LR-1000 7LRM two weeks ago and can't wait to get it. In the meantime, I can concentrate on my company and do what I do best and not waist time and money trying to put together a rifle that might not ever do what I want and if I put all that waisted development time towards my business, I should easily be able to pay for killer rifle.

Anyway.....I'm tired of all you guys bashing Gunwerks for putting out a quality firearm and earning an honest dollar. Isnt that what this country is about?

First and last post on any forum......goodbyegun)lightbulb

I haven't really seen them or any of the other custom makers being bashed.

They provide a premium service for their clientele that their clients want and a price they are willing to pay for same.

Some of us simply don't have the budget for such turn key customs and some just like doing as much as possible on their own. For a lot of us it's a combination of both.