6mm vs .22”

[Calvin45]

Okay folks, I'm here to stir the pot again! A while back I did a 7mm vs .30 cal poll and it got very lively in a good way. This poll now pits the .22 bore against the .24 (6mm). This would be a no brainer years ago for me (6mm obviously winning) but the ultra high bc .22 bullets out now change the game some, combined with the fact that in my home province of Saskatchewan it used to be you couldn't hunt big game with .22 caliber rifles of any kind and now that had changed, for better or worse.

the big cased .22s and the 6mms have tons of overlap now in application and performance. If you could only own a rifle in ONE of these bore
diameters, which gets the nod? For any and all applications, target, varmint, smaller big game, doesn't matter.

I still feel the 6mms are more versatile and not too much of a good thing for varminting, but what are your thoughts?

 

[2ndson]

The 6 Creed shooting 105-108 range bullets has a huge ballistic advantage over a 22-250 at long range. It's not even close.

 

[Calvin45]

The 6 Creed shooting 105-108 range bullets has a huge ballistic advantage over a 22-250 at long range. It's not even close.

How does it compare to a .22 creed with 75-95 grain range?

 

[Andrew Massi]

How does it compare to a .22 creed with 75-95 grain range?

224 88 eld-m has a .274 g7 bc
243 108 eld-m has a .270 g7 bc
Both launched from the CM case the 88 eld-m will go about 3250, the 108 goes 3050 ish. Both out of my 24" barrels with staball 6.5 and both using large rifle primer adg brass. Theres probably more velocity available for both with small primer brass and a different powder. The little 88 .224 shoots flatter out to 1k but the 108 gets there with 60 more ft pounds of energy. if we use 1800 fps as upset velocity for the eld-m than the 22 edges the 6 by about 70 yards- 940 v 870.
Big nod goes to the 88 for largely remaining available during the shortage while 6mil pills have been tough to find

 

[just_jon]

6mm gets my vote. Would probably be different if my 22s were 1:8 instead of 1:12.

 

[Jud96]

6mm in my opinion is more forgiving. When you get to the high BC .22cals they can be finicky on twist rate and velocity. Funny I say that as I gather parts for a .22-250 Ackley with a 7.5 twist barrel

 

[Idaho Lefty]

How does it compare to a .22 creed with 75-95 grain range?

The Barrels,.. WEAR OUT,.. MUCH,.. Faster !!
Go 6mm Creed or, better yet, 6 XC with, a 1-7.5 Twist and you can shoot, the 80's to 95's for Varmints and 100 - 108's for Deer, Antelope and Coyotes,.. way, WAY out, there !
And,..you'll get, 2,000 - 2,500 Rounds of Barrel Life out of, the 6 XC !
Note; the 108 grain, Berger, Elite Hunters, have, a .559 BC !

 

[MagnumManiac]

I voted for 22, only reason is that I have seen too many wounded animals with 6mm's because the user thought that a varmint bullet was a good choice. I simply can't tell if a 6mm really is heavy enough for deer and other such game that weigh in excess of 120lbs even when using an appropriate bullet style and weight. It really is in limbo the 243, is it a varmint round or a deer round?
I know the limitations of a 22, even when using heavier bullets. If the game is heavier than 70lbs, such as our Hog deer, then a 22 will have little trouble taking one down, but if the shot is bad, a heavier calibre is better IMHO.
I really do not like the 243 cartridge either…seen too many strange pressure events with that cartridge for virtually no reason.
My mates 243, a Sako L57, was doing just fine with a 90g bullet of some description running H4350 powder in Winchester (old blue/white bag) brass and a Fed 210 primer we had worked up the previous year for Hog deer season. Inexplicably, it decided to lock the bolt solid, break the extractor and fuse the case head to the bolt on a day running temps in the low 20°C for no apparent reason. Every powder charge was meticulously weighed and checked prior to seating ANY bullets. The powder used is a temp stable powder, the charge was 1.5-2g less than a max load and it made zero sense….yet it happened. We still don't know the cause.

Cheers.

 

[Calvin45]

I voted for 22, only reason is that I have seen too many wounded animals with 6mm's because the user thought that a varmint bullet was a good choice. I simply can't tell if a 6mm really is heavy enough for deer and other such game that weigh in excess of 120lbs even when using an appropriate bullet style and weight. It really is in limbo the 243, is it a varmint round or a deer round?
I know the limitations of a 22, even when using heavier bullets. If the game is heavier than 70lbs, such as our Hog deer, then a 22 will have little trouble taking one down, but if the shot is bad, a heavier calibre is better IMHO.
I really do not like the 243 cartridge either…seen too many strange pressure events with that cartridge for virtually no reason.
My mates 243, a Sako L57, was doing just fine with a 90g bullet of some description running H4350 powder in Winchester (old blue/white bag) brass and a Fed 210 primer we had worked up the previous year for Hod deer season. Inexplicably, it decided to lock the bolt solid, break the extractor and fuse the case head to the bolt on a day running temps in the low 20°C for no apparent reason. Every powder charge was meticulously weighed and checked prior to seating ANY bullets. The powder used is a temp stable powder, the charge was 1.5-2g less than a max load and it made zero sense….yet it happened. We still don't know the cause.

Cheers.

Fair enough, can't argue with your experience. What I can say is that in mine there's no question that the 243 is a potent deer round, and also that varmint bullets are inappropriate indeed. While I can't recommend this if one is capable of mastering a larger round, I do know multiple women shooters who either simply can't handle big recoil or have a harder time carrying a rifle heavy enough to tame it and have successfully taken elk and moose with the round on many occasions. Good hunters, they take no "funny shots", wait till the creature is perfectly broadside and inside 300 yards and it's no big deal…despite claims of invincibility or requiring magnums (and I do prefer my 300 magnum), nothing can really go all that far if both it's lungs are truly wrecked. And small bore high velocity rounds are risky for shoulder shooting but extraordinary "lung poppers".

thanks for participating!

 

[MagnumManiac]

@Calvin45,
I agree, in the hands of a careful shot, with the right bullet, what you say is true.
It's when an animal takes a step, flinches because a fly annoyed it or just Murphy happens along when I feel uneasy about it, as I said, have seen it too many times. We have calibre restrictions on our deer here. 6mm is minimum on a few species and it was debated for 2 years with hunting groups/clubs before the final decision was made. The 22 centrefires were dismissed almost before the discussion started, the hottest topic was whether to have 6mm as a minimum for Fallow deer, it had already been approved as minimum for our Hog deer early in the discussion, after 2 years and lobbying from a deer stalking group it was allowed as minimum. There are still deer shot every year that are wounded by this calibre, hence my trepidation in it's use, as I and many others were involved in those debates and felt strongly that 25 or even 26 should be the minimum, but it didn't go that way. For all other deer species here, 270 is minimum and every group and club agreed to that in the first week of discussion.
I have no qualms stepping up to 25 cal, a 110/115/120g bullet of tough construction take down NZ elk without issue. Out of my 25-06's have taken them with Speer 120g Grand Slams, Nosler 110g Accubonds and Nosler 115g Partitions. Have also seen them taken with 6mm's, most notably a 240 Weatherby with 100g Partitions shot in the crease behind the shoulder, the elk was dead on it's feet, it just didn't know it yet and mirrors my own experience with the 25-06 and 115g Partitions. The guide fired another shot for reassurance just as I did the day before. My guide was shooting his own animal for the freezer.
As to women shooters not taking recoil, I have seen many ladies shooting big bores as if they were a 22….their slim bodies just roll with the recoil instead of us big burly blokes adsorbing it all before we can rock with it.
Anyway, I am sure many feel the 6mm is adequate, I'm just not convinced 100% when things go bad.
And no, I don't believe deer or elk are bullet proof or made of Kevlar skin.

Cheers.

 

[Calvin45]

@Calvin45,
I agree, in the hands of a careful shot, with the right bullet, what you say is true.
It's when an animal takes a step, flinches because a fly annoyed it or just Murphy happens along when I feel uneasy about it, as I said, have seen it too many times. We have calibre restrictions on our deer here. 6mm is minimum on a few species and it was debated for 2 years with hunting groups/clubs before the final decision was made. The 22 centrefires were dismissed almost before the discussion started, the hottest topic was whether to have 6mm as a minimum for Fallow deer, it had already been approved as minimum for our Hog deer early in the discussion, after 2 years and lobbying from a deer stalking group it was allowed as minimum. There are still deer shot every year that are wounded by this calibre, hence my trepidation in it's use, as I and many others were involved in those debates and felt strongly that 25 or even 26 should be the minimum, but it didn't go that way. For all other deer species here, 270 is minimum and every group and club agreed to that in the first week of discussion.
I have no qualms stepping up to 25 cal, a 110/115/120g bullet of tough construction take down NZ elk without issue. Out of my 25-06's have taken them with Speer 120g Grand Slams, Nosler 110g Accubonds and Nosler 115g Partitions. Have also seen them taken with 6mm's, most notably a 240 Weatherby with 100g Partitions shot in the crease behind the shoulder, the elk was dead on it's feet, it just didn't know it yet and mirrors my own experience with the 25-06 and 115g Partitions. The guide fired another shot for reassurance just as I did the day before. My guide was shooting his own animal for the freezer.
As to women shooters not taking recoil, I have seen many ladies shooting big bores as if they were a 22….their slim bodies just roll with the recoil instead of us big burly blokes adsorbing it all before we can rock with it.
Anyway, I am sure many feel the 6mm is adequate, I'm just not convinced 100% when things go bad.
And no, I don't believe deer or elk are bullet proof or made of Kevlar skin.

Cheers.

A reasonable approach for sure. I have a 243 myself but it sees almost no use as I just like my .270 and .300 win mag a lot more and do indeed agree about the extra insurance factor if things aren't perfect and you don't want to have to pass up the opportunity. At ordinary hunting ranges (which to me means inside a quarter mile, 440 yards or so) I think the 270 is still the perfect deer rifle. Nothing does it better! But I won't rabbit trail this further haha (I'm bad for doing that, especially on my own threads)

 

[javman]

Ask Big Stick on the fire, I'm sure he'd luv to share his thoughts on this question! LOL

 

[DJ Fergus]

I've shot the 22 Creedmoor with 90 & 88gr bullets quite a bit. For game coyote size & below, my opinion is that a 88gr plus 22 cal projectile traveling @ 3300 fps will be mighty hard to be beat by a 6mm. When we get up to deer sized game, the 6mm may have some advantage. I've put together a 6mm prc in hopes of pushing the 108gr 6mm to 3300fps but I have yet to shoot it. But if my choices are down to a 22cal or 6mm of the same case capacity, for now I will choose the 22 cal.

 

[CONatureBoy]

I have a 22-250 AI and a 243 Win, both SAAMI twist rates (the former for the base 22-250 caliber). Both shoot a cloverleaf at 100. The 243 is much better at longer shots on varmints, using bullets appropriate to the twist rates. The more general question has too many variables (twist rate, bullet weight and design, etc.) to give a single answer. And "better" reflects individual preferences; it's not an objective question. It's asking whether one prefers vanilla or chocolate ice cream.