6 mm Rem. Loads??

[Crusty Buck]

Trickymissfit, Wow those are harsh words for the beloved Win. 243 Do you think they got the Weight/BC/Throat Thing straightened out with the .264? What I'm hearing you say here is that there is a real balancing act with the .243; heavy vs light weight bullets, and that the BC is not as important as the throat demensions? I shoot 30's, 308 Win and 300 Win Mag. They seem to shoot 150's and 165's with ease and accuracy. I have heard the 180's will really shine in the 300. Is there something inherrant to this success? I am planning on rebarrelling the 308 to a .260 or 7mm-08 when the time comes. Any thoughts here?

CB

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit, Wow those are harsh words for the beloved Win. 243 Do you think they got the Weight/BC/Throat Thing straightened out with the .264? What I'm hearing you say here is that there is a real balancing act with the .243; heavy vs light weight bullets, and that the BC is not as important as the throat demensions? I shoot 30's, 308 Win and 300 Win Mag. They seem to shoot 150's and 165's with ease and accuracy. I have heard the 180's will really shine in the 300. Is there something inherrant to this success? I am planning on rebarrelling the 308 to a .260 or 7mm-08 when the time comes. Any thoughts here?

CB

No the B/C is imprtant, but there some other factors that have to be taken into thought. With the short .243 neck you are often pushing the bullet back into the shoulder reducing case volume (and short throat). Now with a long throated .243 you at least have a way to cope with the long bullets in that the troat is deeper. Six millimeter bullets vary greatly in length, and really it's almost impossible to do the long ones and short ones without a lot of bullet jump or the bullet seated into the shoulder.

The reason I and a lot of others don't like the .243 is not the case itself so much as the shoulder design and neck length. It puts the turbulance point directly into the throat, and that's not a good thing. There's also a brass flow issue, but I think it's over hyped. Ackley improved the case, but also stated that there was much if anything to be gained from his case design except for stopping brass flow. The shoulder angle on the Winchester case is a scant 20 degrees with a neck that is about .240". On the 6mm the shoulder angle is 26 degrees ( better but not by all that much), but the neck is about .35" long. The longer neck allows better usage with bullets like the 105 grain Amax but also handles 70 grain bullets very well. I don't think I ever had the base of a bullet get into the shoulder area. Lots of folks have improved these cases in various ways, and some turned out well, and some others kinda didn't. I like the Rockchucker series as well as the Ackley.

The good old Win. .264 mag<g>! I think everyone of us has wanted one or even went so far as to build one (I almost did it twice). Do a compairson with this case an say the .270 WBY mag. Both cases are overbore, and tend to work best with heavy bullets. The shoulder angle on the winchester is 25 degrees with .254" (already too short) neck length. Once again we see the T.P. pushed forward into the throat. Should be about one third of the way into the neck from the lip. Hornaday in their manual states they went thru several barrels during load development. Now look at the Wby case design. It has a 48 degree shoulder angle with a neck that well over .300". A barrel should last much longer with the case design, and probably would be fantastic necked down to .264. (or the .257 necked up). Myself, I'd take a 6.5-06AI anyday of the week over either one in .264

The .300 Winchester really does well in the 180 to 200 grain area. After you start looking 220 grain and even 240 grain bullets it has problems. Interestingly the .308 Norma is opposite. It dosn't quite do as well as the Winchester in the lighter bullets, but does better with the heavier ones. Only thing I can see to aid it is the .06" longer neck length, and really not all that much much longer (although I think it's a better round). Like to see a short .300 WBY mag with something like a 2.65" over all case length and the same shoulder and neck.
gary

 

[Crusty Buck]

Trickymissfit, I've always thought the 6.5-06 would be an excellent 1000 yd gun. Also, how does the 260 Rem, with it's longer bullets play into all this?

CB

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit, I've always thought the 6.5-06 would be an excellent 1000 yd gun. Also, how does the 260 Rem, with it's longer bullets play into all this?

CB

the 6.5-06 and the 6.5/.284 a fairly close to each other in performance. I think the 6.5-06AI is clearly a step up just like these two are a major step up from the .260. Of the cases in this range the one that really interests me the most is the 6.5x57AI Mauser (pretty much a 6mmAI necked upto .264). May build one for the heck of it.
gary

 

[Crusty Buck]

Trickymissfit, 260 Rem vs 6.5 Creedmoore ? Why?

CB

 

[lloydsmale]

mine really shines with 45 grains of 4831sc and a 100 grain seirra flat based spitzer. Its an old standard production rem classic with sights. Its been a pass around gun at camp for years and has probably killed more deer then any gun thats been there.

 

[Crusty Buck]

lloydsmale, where is camp? How long of a shot is common there? It's cool to hear about "The Gun" that gets passed around at camp. Grandpa's 35 Rem Auto Loader is gthat gun for our family.

Crusty Buck

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit, 260 Rem vs 6.5 Creedmoore ? Why?

CB

I hate to say this, but I know very little about the 6.5 Creedmoore. Looks interesting, but that's about all I know.
gary

 

[lloydsmale]

Shots arent very long at camp. About a 150 yards is the longest i shohot there. Ive used the 6mm a bit for crop damage shooting though but try to keep the range under 300 when im using a small gun like the 6mm. Camp is in the UP mostly swamp and hardwoods with a few small fields and

lloydsmale, where is camp? How long of a shot is common there? It's cool to hear about "The Gun" that gets passed around at camp. Grandpa's 35 Rem Auto Loader is gthat gun for our family.

Crusty Buck

 

[Trickymissfit]

Shots arent very long at camp. About a 150 yards is the longest i shohot there. Ive used the 6mm a bit for crop damage shooting though but try to keep the range under 300 when im using a small gun like the 6mm. Camp is in the UP mostly swamp and hardwoods with a few small fields and

Shot my biggest deer over near Stephenson in the U.P. Used a .257 Roberts and he was about 175 yards. Everybody was using 30-06's cept me, and they all lauged at me when I showed up with the pipsqueak. The next year four of us eight had .257's!! Could have shot twenty five deer, and 80% would have been just fine with a .444 Marlin lever gun. (I threatened to bring my T/C the next year). If I lived up there, I'd be grouse hunting everyday of the week in season!!
gary

 

[Crusty Buck]

Yup, I hear ya. When I lived in Colorado, one of the guys in our camper used a Savage Model 99 in 300 Savage. He shot more Elk with that darn lever than anyone else in the party. Bullet Placement!

Crusty Buck

 

[Trickymissfit]

Yup, I hear ya. When I lived in Colorado, one of the guys in our camper used a Savage Model 99 in 300 Savage. He shot more Elk with that darn lever than anyone else in the party. Bullet Placement!

Crusty Buck

most of us here are not really old enough to remember Charlie Weaver on the Tonight show, but if you do then we have an idea how old you are<g>! I used to work with a guy that looked just like him, and every year he went to Canada with a Savage 99 in .308. (back in the early 1970's). He shot a moose and a couple deer, and then went home with a truck load of meat. He'd come home and clean the rifle and put it up for another year. I know he used the same box of ammo for four years. He always said "boy you only need one gun, and that'd be a 99."
gary

 

[lloydsmale]

it surprises me all the time to see just how popular the 257 bob is up here in the UP. Half the guys here hunt with rem autoloaders in 06 or 270 but theres a good group that really know guns and use some cool stuff.

Shot my biggest deer over near Stephenson in the U.P. Used a .257 Roberts and he was about 175 yards. Everybody was using 30-06's cept me, and they all lauged at me when I showed up with the pipsqueak. The next year four of us eight had .257's!! Could have shot twenty five deer, and 80% would have been just fine with a .444 Marlin lever gun. (I threatened to bring my T/C the next year). If I lived up there, I'd be grouse hunting everyday of the week in season!!
gary

 

[Crusty Buck]

Trickmissfit, The welding instructor from our industrial arts department where I teach is a mapleleaf. He grew up where the road ended and the river began. Both he and his father hunt moose every year with .308's; BLR and Bolt. I tried to book a hunt with his dad, but all the brother in laws have first choice. Apparently the guy is never skunked.

Don