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This is a thread for discussion of the article, 6.5mm x 47 Lapua Review , By John Johnston. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
6.5mm x 47 Lapua Review
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CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
How does the calibre compare with the 6.5 Creedmore you tested..not the rifle (this one seems a keeper) the calibre ?
Do you just not feel is has the power to drive the 140gr VLD bullets ?
Great Trijicon scope, have you considered a custom turret for the 130VLD load ?
Do you just not feel is has the power to drive the 140gr VLD bullets ?
Great Trijicon scope, have you considered a custom turret for the 130VLD load ?
olsingleshot
Well-Known Member
I tried the 140 VLD and they shot real well. The velocity is close to the 6.5C. I have found each cartridge has a bullet weight range that is optimum and in the 6.5x47 it is 120-130gr. In some cases the 6.5x47 matches the 6.5c and the .260 but can't beat them. The case design handles pressure very well, the recoil is light (great for me) and barrel burn out is less likely. Is this an elk cartridge? I think with the right bullet under 400 yards it could do a nice job. Yes, this is a keeper for me. I even ordered another one in a light weight to carry hunting. The Trijicon was excellent. It is hard to express this in writing without actually looking through one. I am not sure a custom turret is available.
olsingleshot
Well-Known Member
It can push a 140gr bullet at over 2700 fps and the accuaracy is good but it realy shines with 120-130 gr. bullets. It is close to a 6.5C but a little short in velocity. This round was designed for accuracy. They are not exactly the same. If I want to shoot 140gr bullets for accuaracy and velocity I use 6.5x284 or 6.5-06.
Good article. I too like the 6.5x47.
However I have one issue with your article:
Cooper Rifles, though pretty nice, are NOT considered custom rifles, by any standard. They are production rifles. And those blueprinted and bedded semi custom Rems that I have had have all shot better than any cooper rifle I have ever shot, and cost half the price.
But other than that, I agree with just about all you said in the article.
However I have one issue with your article:
Cooper Rifles, though pretty nice, are NOT considered custom rifles, by any standard. They are production rifles. And those blueprinted and bedded semi custom Rems that I have had have all shot better than any cooper rifle I have ever shot, and cost half the price.
But other than that, I agree with just about all you said in the article.
olsingleshot
Well-Known Member
Thanks for reading the article. Do you own a Cooper? Like I said in the article I do own some Rems as you described but for this article I chose Cooper. " Custom" is different to everyone. I guess a real custom rifle would be made by one gunsmith, ground up. To each their own, I like Cooper rifles along with a several others, as long as they are accurate.
A custom rifle is one that uses a custom action and a custom barrel. A semi custom uses a factory action blueprinted and bedded with a custom barrel.
I have never owned a cooper but have plenty of access to several. Nice guns. Not worth the money in my opinion, but fine rifles. Their action is nice and Wilson barrels are ok. They are very good for production barrels.
They a fine rifles. Just not custom is all. But that really doesn't matter. I have seen poorly smithed BAT with Bartlein bbl custom gun that shot terribly. So you are right, it is all about how they shoot.
Alan Griffith
Well-Known Member
John,
Great article. I only own a Cooper 57M Custom Classic in 22LR and if it's any indicator of other Cooper's, then they're all keeprs; in both accuracy and build.
Just the other day, on a different forum, a gent asked about this wonderful caliber. I gave a pro/con list. This is it.
I own two 6.5x47's.
Pro
1. small primer pocket allows more brass around the primer and thus allows more pressure which means more velocity.
2. Case is short enough to fit short action.
3. Case is short enough to never worry about bullet intrusion into powder space.
4. Good shoulder and body angle to greatly or totally reduce neck growth thus reducing or eliminating the necessity to trim necks. I finally trimmed a few necks after about 10 firings.
5. 6.5mm with numerous hunting and target grade bullets
6. 6.5mm with numerous bullets with high BC's.
7. Lapua brass
8. .308 case head so many many reloading items available for .308 case head dimensions.
9. .308 case head so many many short actions with .308" diameter bolt faces; great for custom builds.
10. Smallish case capacity means it's not a powder hog.
11. Many after market items available for .308 case. Example; Accuracy International mags in both 5 and 10 rd configurations.
12. Numerous bottom metals built around the AI mag.
13. Mild recoil, even with heavy for caliber bullets.
14. Mild recoil means you can sometimes see hit/misses if far enough out from muzzle.
15. Numerous proven bullets that greatly succeed in both the hunting and target arenas.
Cons
1. Smallish case capacity means it won't stand shoulder to shoulder with the big cases but IMHO will do so with the 6.5CM and 260 Rem. My 24.5" Pierce/Broughton can push 140's up over 2900 fps with ease.
2. Some say the small primer will not fully ignite the powder is super cold temps; say 0 deg and below. I've only tested mine to about 10 deg with zero ill effects.
3. It's not a 30+ cal.
4. Some actions need the firing pin hole bushed otherwise primer cratering extrusion can be excessive. My Surgeon action is nearly so. My Pierce action does not suffer that problem.
5. Expensive brass
6. Only source of brass is Lapua which can mean occasional shortages.
7. Occasional shortages of popular bullets such as the 140 Berger VLD.
I hope I've given a fair representation.
Another thing John. If you'r only getting 2700+ fps with 140 Bergers, you're either using the wrong powder or just not letting it breath. As you said, it's a round that can handle high pressures. With my 26" Broughton, I was getting 2950 fps with Rel 17 and 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups with the 140 VLD. Not as much with bullets that have more bearing surface like the 140 Accubond and Partition but still in the high 2800's. These two bullets, having more bearing surface, present pressure signs earlier than the VLD with it's shorter bearing surface.
All in all, I love the -47 and expect to have it in my arsenal until the end of my life.
Thanks,
Alan
Great article. I only own a Cooper 57M Custom Classic in 22LR and if it's any indicator of other Cooper's, then they're all keeprs; in both accuracy and build.
Just the other day, on a different forum, a gent asked about this wonderful caliber. I gave a pro/con list. This is it.
I own two 6.5x47's.
Pro
1. small primer pocket allows more brass around the primer and thus allows more pressure which means more velocity.
2. Case is short enough to fit short action.
3. Case is short enough to never worry about bullet intrusion into powder space.
4. Good shoulder and body angle to greatly or totally reduce neck growth thus reducing or eliminating the necessity to trim necks. I finally trimmed a few necks after about 10 firings.
5. 6.5mm with numerous hunting and target grade bullets
6. 6.5mm with numerous bullets with high BC's.
7. Lapua brass
8. .308 case head so many many reloading items available for .308 case head dimensions.
9. .308 case head so many many short actions with .308" diameter bolt faces; great for custom builds.
10. Smallish case capacity means it's not a powder hog.
11. Many after market items available for .308 case. Example; Accuracy International mags in both 5 and 10 rd configurations.
12. Numerous bottom metals built around the AI mag.
13. Mild recoil, even with heavy for caliber bullets.
14. Mild recoil means you can sometimes see hit/misses if far enough out from muzzle.
15. Numerous proven bullets that greatly succeed in both the hunting and target arenas.
Cons
1. Smallish case capacity means it won't stand shoulder to shoulder with the big cases but IMHO will do so with the 6.5CM and 260 Rem. My 24.5" Pierce/Broughton can push 140's up over 2900 fps with ease.
2. Some say the small primer will not fully ignite the powder is super cold temps; say 0 deg and below. I've only tested mine to about 10 deg with zero ill effects.
3. It's not a 30+ cal.
4. Some actions need the firing pin hole bushed otherwise primer cratering extrusion can be excessive. My Surgeon action is nearly so. My Pierce action does not suffer that problem.
5. Expensive brass
6. Only source of brass is Lapua which can mean occasional shortages.
7. Occasional shortages of popular bullets such as the 140 Berger VLD.
I hope I've given a fair representation.
Another thing John. If you'r only getting 2700+ fps with 140 Bergers, you're either using the wrong powder or just not letting it breath. As you said, it's a round that can handle high pressures. With my 26" Broughton, I was getting 2950 fps with Rel 17 and 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups with the 140 VLD. Not as much with bullets that have more bearing surface like the 140 Accubond and Partition but still in the high 2800's. These two bullets, having more bearing surface, present pressure signs earlier than the VLD with it's shorter bearing surface.
All in all, I love the -47 and expect to have it in my arsenal until the end of my life.
Thanks,
Alan
olsingleshot
Well-Known Member
Great review on this cartridge and I agree with all of what you said. About velocity: I personally load for the most accuarate and then depending on the use, I try for velocity. The velocity in the article was from the Hodgdon maximun load. Yes this may be low but why do we have to push everything to the maximum?It's just nice to know you coulld if you want. Since most of my hunting will be for whitetail, I do not need the maximum velocity. Now when I load for serious long range shooting, that may change. I realize a lot of the 6.5 cartridges I write about are very close in ballistics but each one is just a little bit different or for a different use. Anything Lapua makes is quality and usually well thought out.
Alan Griffith
Well-Known Member
John,
I agree. I too go for accuracy first. My load @ 2950 was actually a full gr under the loads first signs of pressure as well as accurate too.
What load Hodgdon load data are you referring to? I've to see anyone except Ramshot and Vit publish data.
Again, good write up.
Alan
olsingleshot
Well-Known Member
Alan,
You are absolutely correct about loads from Hodgdon. I am not quite sure where I got the load, probably from www.loaddata.com or from Berger. I knew that there were faster loads but chose that load for accuracy and it performed well at long range. If I had all the time in the world to test all loads, bullets, powders and velocities, it may be different. I'm working on 6.5x284 now and have found the same problem. Highest velocities seldom equal best accuarcy. However, some bullets, by design, are more accuarate when pushed the fastest. To each their own, that is why we have so many cartriges to choose from these days.
You are absolutely correct about loads from Hodgdon. I am not quite sure where I got the load, probably from www.loaddata.com or from Berger. I knew that there were faster loads but chose that load for accuracy and it performed well at long range. If I had all the time in the world to test all loads, bullets, powders and velocities, it may be different. I'm working on 6.5x284 now and have found the same problem. Highest velocities seldom equal best accuarcy. However, some bullets, by design, are more accuarate when pushed the fastest. To each their own, that is why we have so many cartriges to choose from these days.
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
JJ,
I await your 6.5x284 data with much anticipation as my new Sav LRH is in said calibre.
On the 6.5x47, I thought the case web was also beefed up in addition to the small primer hole for the 63,090 pressure limit. But, as alluded, to the real limit may be primer piercing ; along those lines I also hear the Russian Wolf brand primers are more robust.
You must be shooting early in the AMs,
CR
I await your 6.5x284 data with much anticipation as my new Sav LRH is in said calibre.
On the 6.5x47, I thought the case web was also beefed up in addition to the small primer hole for the 63,090 pressure limit. But, as alluded, to the real limit may be primer piercing ; along those lines I also hear the Russian Wolf brand primers are more robust.
You must be shooting early in the AMs,
CR
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
Alan I think JJ is shooting at about 1,000' PA where as your Utah elev s/b much higher and thus yield faster vels.
CR
Alan Griffith
Well-Known Member
CR,
No disrespect intended but I totally disagree. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how a bullet would fly 100-200 fps slower in the first 10' from the muzzle if the altitude is say, 3500' different.
If you've got some kind of imperical data or proven theory, I'm will to look at it.
Alan
